@AndrewGarrison Already done! :D Thank you, sir.

@OtterOfToast @Geekpride Wow, quite a lot of ASCII on this post. I think you two should block each other and move on.

@Geekpride Oh, so you did ruin the tournament for people who wanted to do it legit. Alright, look-- I'm sick of talking to you. Your point is mute, and yes. I am accusing you of cheating. Get over it.

@OtterOfToast I know it was a lot of text, but it was a genuine attempt to cool things down, have a rational discussion and work out where we disagreed. Apparently you're not interested in that, so let me make it very simple for you:
- By saying that the shakers were a bunch of cheaters,, you have falsely accused myself and many other players of being cheats. You should admit that you were wrong and apologise.
- You're misrepresenting what Andrew Garrison has said. There's nothing there saying that shakers were a cheat, in fact he says it was fun. He's announced that they won't be allowed in future tournaments, but that doesn't change the past.
- You made this post in the forums and knew people would be able to comment on it. If you think replying to your comments is harassment, I suggest that you tag a moderator with your concerns. I'm perfectly happy to accept their judgement on this matter.

@Geekpride TL;DR - you think I have time for you?? No. Go away. Why are you even looking for an argument at this point? nobody cares.
@FlyingFanatic You two are really argumentative. Besides, it's already too late! I've won and shakers were deemed unfair and banned from the next glider tournament. Just because it's an unlimited race doesn't mean it's not a glider race. It'a glider course and therefor considered a glider race. Get over yourselves. And might I remind you, Fanatic, you too are in violation for harassment.

Leave me alone, both of you, get over yourselves and realize shakers were a cheat. Even Garrison agrees.
Don't go around falunting "Oh he's a dev, I'ma tell on you! you're in violation! Yadayadayada" because that's not going to fly with me. Grow up, shut up and go away. I've tried humoring you, but I'm, done.

Previous comment was cut off, continued here:
C3) You therefore had the ability to know that the fastest entries in the tournament were likely to be shakers.
Section D: What I'd like you to do
D1) You should admit that shakers were legitimate entries for the Eagle Pass tournament.
D2) You should admit that those who used shakers as their entry were not cheating.
D3) You should accept that your poor performance in the tournament was down to your decision to use a slower design.
Conclusion: I doubt that you're going to agree with all of this. If there are bits you disagree with, can you try to be clear what they are? And if you've got any other points you'd like to raise, please make them individual ones for easy reference.

@OtterOfToast We do seem to be going round in circles. I'm going to break it down into separate sections, so we can at least figure out what we can agree and disagree about.
Section A: Why I'm arguing with you.
A1) My initial reason for jumping in here is that I think that bad losers are bad for the community. When someone wins a tournament, it's not unusual for them to receive accusations of cheating / having produced an unfair design. It's also not unusual for Andrew Garrison to receive multiple requests to investigate the winner. My concern is that the tournaments might be stopped if they create too much hassle and abuse. By making a post purely to complain about the winning designs, you put yourself in this category of bad losers.
A2) You have also made this personal. My entry for the Eagle Pass tournament was a shaker, albeit a mediocre one. You've said that shakers cheated you, and are a bunch of cheaters. That means you have accused me of cheating. I do not cheat, and to falsely accuse me of doing so is unacceptable.
Section B: Tournament races in general
B1) The aim of entering a tournament is that your entry will complete the course as fast as possible. I know not every entry to a tournament is a serious competitor, but most of them are there to race.
B2) Each tournament has its own set of rules. There are general classes of race, but there are also those with additional rules as well, such as the Flyweight Oceanview Speedway race.
B3) It is impossible to have an entry that breaks the rules, as an automated check for illegal parts is carried out before the tournament begins.
B4) It is therefore impossible to cheat in a tournament.
B5) Tournament entries are not required to look or behave like realistic vehicles.
Section C: Posted comments
C1) In the Eagle Pass tournament comments section, some people were being open that they were using shakers, and were posting the times they could achieve.
C2) As I pointed out previously, Andrew Garrison stated that the shaking glitch was allowed in the Eagle Pass tournament.

@FlyingFanatic I'll refer you back to the definition of an engine, since yo uobviously skipped over it.
en·gine
ˈenjən/Submit
noun
1.
a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion.

Shakers move. It's very obvious these glitches cause parts to move, and the power of said glitch causes momentum. They do, in fact, gain power from a form of engine. A shaker is very obviously not a glider. Now, you can do one of two things: Pick this beach to die on and argue a mute point (especially now shakers are banned form glider tournaments, you can thank me later), or go find someone like #Geekpride who gives half a hell, and brush up on your definitions while you're at it. Ask Webster if you must-- he's a reliable source.

EDIT: And just a tip... Seeing as you haven't even been here a week, I'd refrain from arguing with people unless you want to look incredibly useless. This is not a good start on this site for you.

@Geekpride I don't get what point you'r arguing. Mine was the fact that shakers are not gliders and don't belong in races designed for gliders. Yours seems to be irrelevant.

@OtterOfToast Can you provide a link to that, please?

Edit: Never mind, I found it.
By the way, it doesn't mean my argument was invalid. Andrew has said that shakers won't be allowed in future glider tournaments. That means they were allowed in this one.

@Geekpride You're still on this...? Garrison's outlawed shakers in the next glider tournament. Frankly, your argument has just been deemed totally invalid. Just give up, you're starting to annoy me.

@OtterOfToast Look at the tournaments page. Observe that the Eagle Pass race is listed as an Unlimited race. There is currently no such thing as a "glider class" tournament on Simple Planes.
If you look at the tournament rules page, you will see that in Unlimited class, all engine types are allowed. So as you're claiming shakers are a kind of engine, that means they are allowed in an Unlimited class race.

@Sauce Just stop.

@OtterOfToast

#FIRSTWORLDPROBLEMS

@Sauce You're obviously to intent on patronizing me to understand my point. How's about instead of talking down to me, your approach this matter with some level of echelon or tact and understand my point.
A tournament:
tour·na·ment
ˈtərnəmənt,ˈto͝ornəmənt/Submit
noun
1.
(in a sport or game) a series of contests between a number of competitors, who compete for an overall prize.

This is true of the shakers, they certainly compete for a prize. But may I remind you that it is a glider class tournament.
Glider:
glid·er
ˈɡlīdər/
noun
1.
a light aircraft that is designed to fly for long periods without using an engine.

The definition of an engine is as follows:
en·gine
ˈenjən/Submit
noun
1.
a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion.

Shakers use a form of engine. Therefor, they are not gliders in function.
The tournament was for the glider class.
And class is defined as this:
class
klas/Submit
noun
1.
a set or category of things having some property or attribute in common and differentiated from others by kind, type, or quality.
"A set category" and not "because it wins the race on a technicality".

I'm frustrated because gliders had no chance to win in a glider tournament.
Get it through your thick, pretentious membrane that shakers, by definition and by function, are not gliders.
You cannot argue with definition.

@OtterOfToast so let me clear that for myself... gliders that aren't even gliders, which do not any break tournament rule frustrate you?
and now let me clear it for you... tournament submitions do not really have to look or behave like the given class prop/glider/jet, they are supposed to do only one thing... WIN, which your submission didn't

@Geekpride I'd hope not. I'm plum tired of shakers.

@Sauce Nah. Just frustrated at the fact I almost had a chance, then gliders that aren't even gliders steal the tournie :\ Not cool.

are you mad?
cause i'm not XD

@OtterOfToast It looks like you're going to like the new tournament better - it's just gone up as Mod class Oceanview Speedway. I don't think it's possible to get a shaker working from a standing start on the runway.

@Geekpride It's kinda' funny how your only argument is against a figure of speech :P

@OtterOfToast I'm going to quote you. "Don't glitch in here with your powered flight and screw up my glider tournament."
It's not YOUR glider tournament. It's Andrew Garrison's glider tournament. And as I showed with the comments I linked to, he said that shakers are allowed.

For what it's worth, I suspect the reason shakers were allowed is because it would be quite hard to check for them during the validation. If they do want to run a shaker-free tournament, they'd probably have to put a limit on the number of wings and stabilisers that are allowed on the plane - that would be an easy check to automate.

@Geekpride dose it sound like I'm complaining? If so, sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like a complaint

@Geekpride Slapping on a few weights onto a wing and exploiting how the game functions is not engineering. Everyone can do it, but it's a glider tournament, not a shaker tournament, two very different functions, mind you.
And maybe Garrison needs to rethink his position. Sure it's final for this race, but maybe he'll think twice this next time.
Shakers suck. They're not gliders, they do not function as gliders. I can give you the definition of a glider. In fact, here:
glid·er
ˈɡlīdər/
noun
1.
a light aircraft that is designed to fly for long periods without using an engine.
2.
a person or thing that glides.
"the flying lemur is an efficient glider as well as climber"

Might I refer you to the first context. "without using and engine."
en·gine
ˈenjən/Submit
noun
1.
a machine with moving parts that converts power into motion.
The glitching, internally generated momentum provided by the glitch easily falls under the description of an engine, converting the power of the glitch into motion, which it obviously does.
Shakers are cheating trash. They are not gliders and do not belong in glider tournaments. If you're so intent on using shakers, then make a separate tournament for them. Don't glitch in here with your powered flight and screw up my glider tournament.

How is it a fair fight? How does any of that encourage engineering and innovation? Simple: It's fair because everyone has the same parts to use. It's up to the individual how they put them together, which is where the engineering and innovation come in.
You say that it ought to be cheating to use the shaking glitch, but Andrew Garrison has been very clear that it is allowed. He's the tournament organiser, his decision is final. Shakers weren't cheating, and no amount of complaining will change that.

yeah, I mean even if I did compete I wouldn't have useedd a shaker (idk how but that's not the point) @OtterOfToast