@TheOwlAce to our timeline or too your timeline?

@Irobert55 She.... and this plane is technically non canon to the timeline.

@DragonAerotech but the most funny thing is: our friend over here could fix his problem with two minimal steps: let the third horten survive and then let him design more normal looking planes. against your supper worked out story is this not much. but respect for them whom erned it.

@DragonAerotech but the most funny thing is: our friend over here could fix his problem with two minimal steps: let the third horten survive and then let him design more normal looking planes. against your supper worked out story is this not much. but respect for them whom erned it.

@DragonAerotech nice research bro. this is not only an alternate timeline. this is conterfactual history. its even more work than my idea for a big war between flying vikings and pirates with the rest of the world in form of a neutral party and some neutral pirates and vikings between them (ok the vikings have more friends because their were more farmers and traders even in our world).

@Irobert55 My post got cut off. :( Anyway, through a succession of events, strange alliances and agreements Finland persevered. It eventually came to be known as "Se Viikinki Imperiumi," unofficially. To succeed the throne one had to lead a successful campaign of military conquest, which is what inspired the national insignia, the Scarlet Crown - as it is a crown that can only be grasped by one with blood on their hands. By the time frame of The Owl Ace's timeline, some twenty years prior, "Finland" had successfully conquered Sweden and Norway. (The enemy aircraft in his designs I generally suggested were of Swedish or Norwegian design and were to be used in the first stages of the conflict against his Weltreich to lower their guard as they were largely inferior to his designs.

The designs that followed were meant to be Finland's actual military strength. Before I finished rolling out all of my designs, not then being aware of the three a day limit, he had unilaterally declared victory.

I had hoped it would be a play-by-play kind of game. You move, I move, etc. After I expressed this we planned to start a new game, possibly with my adoption of a different nation. I was considering taking up the role of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and we would design one for one, one enemy followed with one of our own. Then do a play-by-play after we were ready to start.

@Irobert55 I had worked out the history and traced the independence back to one event from before Finland became a part of Russia. Its in posts from a couple of years ago and the rest is stuck on my inaccessible laptop in a series of simple planes documents.

From what I remember there was a plan recorded in history sometime soon after the American revolution, if I remember right that actually served as the inspiration in part, to rebel against Sweden among Finnish ethnic military officers and nobles. They had set out their plans, had a significant number of Finns ready and willing to rebel and thus they were basically ready to start to move. (Finland for many years had been a buffer zone that served as a battleground for Sweden and Russia in repeated conflicts and they were tired of their fields being trampled, their communities being razed and their people being slaughtered/forced into a war not of their own making.

However someone became aware of the ploy and fearing the subsequent repercussions or was simply a loyalist to the Swedish crown he rode to inform Swedish authorities. A simple change in history changed that part in that he was thrown from his horse and perished while on his way to alert the Swedes. If he had succeeded, as he did in our timeline, the new and young King of Sweden would have brutally cut down the head individuals of this attempt at independence. In this alternate timeline he failed to inform the authorities and they made their move swiftly. Reports from that time period were that Swedish fortifications and garrisons in Finland at the time were severely understaffed. Furthermore many Finns had joined the Swedish military merely to protect their own homes and families from the repeated wars. You combine understaffed garrisons/fortifications, an entrenched enemy bitter from the repeated wars between two other peoples on their land that typically saw their people and communities victimized or serving as a commodity within that permeates these, a budding concept of independence and it develops into a powerful storm.

Once they moved to take control of the fortresses, garrisons and noble's houses - who were of Swedish bloodlines - it would have been comparatively swift. Assuming that they didn't march all their cannon and arms in and out of the garrisons and fortresses with each troop redistribution this would have put the majority of the Eastern portion of the Swedish Kingdom's weaponry in the hands of the Finns.

@TheOwlAce Your' laptop sounds a lot like the "Loaner" here, but a bit more powerful. Likely the difference between laptops and notepads of the time.

@DragonAerotech there is a problem with alternate timelines that can often easily kill them. finnland was a part of russia for most of the time. you must make up events and some sort of story too suport them. i have my own alternate timeline with a great war between pirates and vikings. that got started by an event with an alien race called the jundroo. ok i admit that on my account are only 4 objects but. you have clearly to rewrite a lot. for instance: how many hortens were involved on the horten 9? 2. the third brother was killed in an minelaying operation. even the sky crawlers has a visible timeline shift before: whe you look at the planes, the coastal air defense radar and the carriers you can see that in this timeline after the first world war the people started to think in the right direction (in our reality the winners started the second world war with the threaty of versailes when you undo it or make a better threaty you have a timeline without hitler) and give companies money for a long airwar to prevent wars between countrys until a better solution is found. or with other words: make a clear shift and a clear starting time and the story ins running. btw: some planes of the sky crawlers a combinations of a lot of warbirds.

@DragonAerotech Mines a Dell Intel Core I7, with 8GB of ram, a 1.73Gh possessor. Battery doesnt work so I have her constantly plugged in. And the webcam is shot. Besides that shes still going strong Knocks on wood And again, she, dont like being called "He". As for the aircraft companies, since Germany won WW1 I figured the aircraft industry would have alot more competitors for a slew of different projects since we hadnt been at war since 1932 and its now 1950. Not to mention we have flying warships so it changes the dynamics of air and land warfare.

@Irobert55 Look, while I can agree on some points about his naming sense, its really irrelevant, he likes the Reichsluftfahrtministerium system. He basically used many of the same relevant figures in the German aircraft industry, with some twists and exceptions. What's the harm?

You say it doesn't resemble anything designed in Germany? True, in our timeline the German aircraft industry by the time this was designed in the alternate timeline had virtually been completely dismantled following Germany's defeat in the Second World War. However you could compare it to some of the De Havilland designs that were designed in the waning days of that war and even after. You could also compare it to the Focke-Wulf "Flitzer" project.

Whenever you are dealing with alternate timelines you have to imagine that every small change has a butterfly effect following it. Every major event, such as the failure of the Weimar Republic to ever appear, the Kaiser remaining in power, the failure of the Bolshevik Revolution and so on would have profound impacts upon the timeline. How can any of us accurately predict what would have happened in the place of the history that we know with each minor detail - let alone major events? Perhaps Alexander Lippisch in this alternate timeline did not survive the Great War and therefore could not have gone on to design aircraft that later inspired the Horton Brothers and spur their imagination to follow flying wing designs? That's just one of countless possibilities.

Look at my my designs for Finland, their aircraft industry was laughable BUT in the alternate timeline settings I've participated in they managed to build it up. Many of those are my earliest designs on SimplePlanes and they have NO basis in factual information, it's all made up.

Ultimately though, mein freund, I suggest you worry more about building planes, flying them and having fun instead of providing non-constructive criticism to other builders about fiddly details regarding names, designations, designs, etc. I believe the Developers and Administrators would prefer that too.

@TheOwlAce 2009 you say? I decided to check on this machine and its the same year, maybe I'm underestimating her? She's a Hewlett-Packard HP Pavilion dv6 Notebook PC running on Windows 7 (though I'm curious about trying Ubuntu as an alternative startup option.) Stat wise she has an AMD 1.6 GHz Processor, 6 GB RAM and just shy of 600 GB of storage - 570 useful storage after system partitions. IF that could handle SimplePlanes the only other complication is that she has a bum cooling fan that grinds and grumbles the whole time she runs. I have her posterior side propped up on a tape measure, with a tiny desk fan blowing air into the cooling vent and under her. I additionally have a large box fan sitting next to her on low - just to be sure she doesn't suffer from the overheating shutdowns she experienced several times in my kids hands during her days as "The Loaner." Two of her four USB ports are shot. The battery won't hold a charge and I think weight to weight she has more electrical tape on the power cord than actual wire!

@TheOwlAce oh and please dont use translator programs to check your creation names. i found an old viehicle of yours with a big gun that is for building. serious mortar is a gun tipe but i is a the same time tha name of a sort of cement. what you ment was a mörser. you vehicle is called a mörtel and thats not a weapon (ok posibly
in a nazi version of bob the builder its a possible vehikle :)).

@TheOwlAce i saw once a flying fortress that was unusable. the only armament was a turret on the back of the plane. it was moving to fast. that is a plane that is from a total noob. this plane isnt. and thats the reason im not sure of it is a good idea tho name it horten in any way. a simple gotha would fix any of those possible problems. because the build trains. yupp the first jet powered flying wing was planned to be manufactured by a railcar manufacturer.

@Irobert55 Look at my later works, this was me sharpening my teeth. And dont sweat the small stuff, this is a game. I could have named this the giant flying sausage and it wouldnt matter.

@DragonAerotech I saw and understand, this 2009 laptop is starting to get on the fritz. And thanks, I couldnt have explained it to him any better. Btw, "She" :> @Irobert55 This was made before I started getting into detail and what tech would show up at the time. I made this just to be made.

@DragonAerotech but it isnt at all like avery thing that i know from german manufacturers. ok some of the later projekts of dornier have a similar look but we in germany have an other way to deal with things. we build a fighter with monstrous 5 meter propellers behind the cockpit that are realy close to the fuselage and invent the escape seat to safe the pilot. it doenst look like anything from the old days of jet fighters. but like i said there was a product of another manufacturer after the war (timespan 2950 to 1970) that looks very similar. or like a rockwell bronco.

@TheOwlAce Love the new profile photo you chose by the way! Sorry our next match never got off of the ground - pun unintended but I'll take credit just the same. If you'll read below my laptop that has SimplePlanes on it is presently out of commission and I'm not sure that this aged beast, the "Loaner" laptop that gets passed around whenever someone's machine is presently inoperable, could handle it. I'm hoping to get Old Silver fixed either this month or next and HOPING they don't have to wipe the drive entirely to get her back up and operational.

@Irobert55 Thank you for the attempt at educating we mere mortal, uneducated and unwashed masses of Americans in the ever SO obscure topic of the Horton Brothers' projects. (With information just as easily found on the pages of Wiki, no less and without looking into their planned paper projects at all.) As such, with all due respect sod off! If he called it the Scheisse-Flugel SF.XXIII it wouldn't change the fact that he did a bang up job on building a sweet looking late-40s/early-50s feel jet fighter that handles well, is a real killer and has a fair range for a jet fighter of her size.

@TheOwlAce but the numbers doesnt catch up even in this szenario.

@Irobert55 Well it is an alternate timeline.

@DragonAerotech he never siad something about alternate timelines. oh and the hortens brothers only build around ten planes. the horten 229 was realy their nineth plane or to be more exactly it was called horten IX or horten 9. the 229 was from the porduction company gotha. the product name was go 229.

@Irobert55 I am aware, but his builds are of an alternate timeline and who is to say it wouldn't be as such? I didn't create his world of creations I just took part in it for a bit. I was preparing to do so yet again when my computer suffered a Break Point error due to a file sharing issue between a photo I had saved on my hard drive and was still being accessed by Firefox. They've since patched that error with a new version of Firefox but too late for my PC. I can't even get Windows to load up on it.

@DragonAerotech in this case the name of the plane would be go. the production name of the ho x was go229.

@Irobert55 I'm well aware of that historical fact, but thank you for pointing it out. His aircraft labeled as Fw are Fokker-Wulf rather than Focke-Wulf too, perhaps not surprisingly since Henrich Focke was pressured by shareholders out of the company in the mid-30s and later founded Focke-Achgelis. Perhaps the Horton brothers were placed in charge of Gotha in the timeline this aircraft was produced for? It would be just the same as how Willy Messershmitt took the lead for Bayerische Flugzeugwerke? Hence the Ho- leading the name; Just as the Messerschmitt 109 is abbreviated as Bf-? ^_~