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[Help - Balancing Issues] Phantom Black Bolt V3

120 SumDood  11 months ago

This is the 3rd variant of the first one I uploaded. I did make a 2nd version but wasn’t too happy about the weapons bay or cockpit interior, so i made a third version that was more improved from the 1st and 2nd. But unlike the 2nd version that can pull 20g’s easily with extreme maneuverability, just don’t pitch down hard, this one is giving me a pure headache because it keeps pulling down like crazy without flaps. The flaps need to be at 35%-50% just to keep the damn things nose up. If I add any weight to the back it completely throws it off, same thing with moving the main wings foward. I keep looking at the 2nd version, trying to get any idea on how to do the same thing but I can’t seem to replicate it.
If anyone is good at making high maneuverability wing setups give this a try please, I’m going insane.

General Characteristics

  • Created On iOS
  • Wingspan 44.2ft (13.5m)
  • Length 59.9ft (18.3m)
  • Height 12.9ft (3.9m)
  • Empty Weight N/A
  • Loaded Weight 28,801lbs (13,064kg)

Performance

  • Power/Weight Ratio 14.63
  • Wing Loading 75.9lbs/ft2 (370.6kg/m2)
  • Wing Area 379.4ft2 (35.3m2)
  • Drag Points 10677

Parts

  • Number of Parts 131
  • Control Surfaces 8
  • Performance Cost 923
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood Well, this is designed for fighter jets, making it easier for pilots to focus during air combat without deliberately keeping an eye on data updates on the HUD. I will publish it tonight
    This is a fighter jet that adopts this design, you can give it a try.
    https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/sm57DO/PX-9N-Starlight-fight

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ That is some crazy stuff you’ve been building. I’ve really only seen this on an Abrams tank someone built with NVG’s, but not something this cool.

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood You are welcome. By the way, I have a new "toy" here, why don't you take a look?
    https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/qyB0tl/HMDS-Helmet-Sighting

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ Almost done with the final version, just gotta add an afterburner at +95% Throttle. I also added a Special Thanks with your name in the cockpits dash.

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    Here’s the updated version - https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/vaFU59/Fixed-99-Phantom-Black-Bolt-V3

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood It should be due to the excessive angle of attack leading to a sharp increase in drag. I don't think this is a problem, rather it's a trade-off for aircraft performance. Increasing the angle of attack is the best choice to increase maneuverability without changing the wing area, but the disadvantage is poor energy storage and rapid energy loss. However, due to the powerful engine of this aircraft, which can quickly replenish the lost energy, I did not consider this issue in my design.

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ I just got on and changed a few things, I did make the smaller secondary non-functional, making the big engine the main power source. I did go with the pitch rate for the rear rotors and it did make it more stable on maneuverability. Added at least 2000lbs on the front nose and increased the wing size similar to your setup while also adjusting the flaps. Made the rear elevators more swept back.
    SOME HOW MOF THE DROOPING DISAPPEARED, NOW IT PULLS UP SLIGHTLY
    Edit - Roll is more of a corkscrew and the aircraft is more stable than ever, once it gets up to speed there’s basically no problems with it. The only thing is that the speed gets significantly dropped with put into a high g pull

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ I’d better get some sleep tho it’s almost 5am. I’ll try and improve it later in the day

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood You're welcome, we are all meant to make progress together. It's getting late, it's time to go to bed, Bye bye

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ Thank you so much for helping me understand things better. Maybe now my aircraft won’t shit itself when I do a test flight. I might even redo V3 completely and make it a more stable aircraft like V2, like it was supposed to be.
    I have made dozens of these Phantom Jets as a series, slowly improving it as I progressed, now I think I can make more complexed jets than before

    THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood I love and hate it, I like its function, but unfortunately, some aircraft with excellent performance are prone to shaking in slow motion, and in stall state, pitch rate may become one of the difficulties. Unless you really need it, don't deliberately use it. Of course, increasing the damping value of the rotor can alleviate this problem, but excessive damping value itself is also a problem.
    You can also determine whether to turn it on by activating the group, but I think you will need some more time to learn this.

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood I am not good at this myself. And I have to remind you that the Pitch rate is not omnipotent, and under certain conditions, it may even become a limitation. All designs should revolve around the actual starting point of the aircraft, rather than using whatever comes to mind.

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ Ahh well that’s something good to know. At least I know now that Wing-2 will keep them from flapping like crazy. I have so many failed aircraft’s because of the flappy wing issues, maybe now I can go back to them and revisit the concept and make it better (Most of aircraft’s were made before modes on mobile). But pitch rate is something I gotta learn more about, like I said I’m not good at coding.
    But that particular coding works with most aircraft’s correct?

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood Hey bro, guess why I said reference Hellkeska? Because I am not good at coding myself. I just reverse engineer the principles by dismantling other people's works, and then master them myself.

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood Because wing-2 is structural wing,

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ I look through it again and saw what I missed. I am understanding it better now. And yes I am good at making appearances but my editing and coding stuff isn’t really my thing. I’ve really only gotten into it after they added mods to mobile, then all these new aircraft’s would be published with some simple coding and I took it from there. I don’t really understand coding, that’s why I don’t use it that much. Most of the cockpits digital display is from free use parts, I never did the coding. I mainly stuck to the more simplistic way of building aircraft and not getting all technical.

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ THERE IS STILL A WHOLE TON OF STUFF I GOTTA LEARN IN THIS GAME AND YOU MANAGED TO TEACH ME MORE THAN WHAT I ALREADY KNEW.
    I am curious though why does changing the XML from wing-3 to wing-2 affect on how the wing is flappy??? And V2 has 6 types of control surfaces, the 2 full motion tail wing and the flaps on the main wing, that’s how I got it to maneuver so well. But the whole pitch rate stuff is something entirely new to me.

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood I admit that you are good at creating appearances, but during my editing process, I realized that you may indeed seem like a beginner. All of this is recorded in my two long comments, did you take a closer look?

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ I AM SPEECHLESS RN. First of all how did you remove so much of the drooping?! And how did you make the main wing not move so much??? (The wing flexing) I’ve been trying to avoid that for so long. And the coding you did with the rear rotors is something I didn’t even know was possible, and it turns so smoothly. LIKE WTF THIS IS MAGIC.

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood In case you find it difficult to understand, this is the sample I made. You can refer to it. Wishing you smooth research and looking forward to your good news
    https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/Jw8r56/Help9-2

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood Do you often feel that fighter jets either lack mobility or are prone to stalling? That's because there are no restrictions. PitchRate is born for this purpose, as it can impose some restrictions on your maneuvers to prevent you from entering a stall state. Therefore, when you are in a dilemma, it's worth starting from here.
    So, the next step that needs to be addressed is to improve mobility. Mobility is related to factors such as wing shape, wing load, speed, and drag. Each aircraft can control its optimal maneuvers. You can refer to the size of the angle of attack to determine. Although I don't know why the angle of attack of this aircraft is reversed, it's okay. When the angle of attack exceeds 25 degrees, the aircraft is highly likely to be difficult to operate and even stall. I suggest adjusting the angle of attack of this aircraft to around 20 degrees, using methods such as changing the counterweight, increasing the pitch deflection angle, increasing the tail control surface area, and installing a vector engine.
    It should be noted that since you have written a trim formula on the tail wing, the larger the tail wing area, the easier it is for you to change the trim.
    Roughly speaking, there are some additional contents that you can refer to:
    1.Changing the wing type in XML from "wing-3" to "wing-2" can help prevent your aircraft from becoming a flapping wing.(The wing flexing)
    2.When using a full motion tail wing, there is no need to add an additional control surface above the tail wing, which greatly affects control.
    3.Don't set the automatic return midpoint for the driver's camera, I won't be able to operate the dashboard anymore.

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood Provide an overview of the issues with this aircraft: severe nose drop and insufficient maneuverability. For fighter jets, the issue of insufficient maneuverability takes priority over nose drop, so we start with maneuverability.
    Observe this aircraft and pay attention to any deficiencies in its basic information. It can be keenly observed that its wing load is very high, which generally severely limits maneuverability. Due to the significant impact of the main wing on the overall performance of the aircraft, it should be dealt with first, otherwise it may easily affect other factors and ruin all previous efforts.
    After enlarging the main wing, priority should be given to observing the position of the lift center and center of gravity. If it is too close, even if the lift center is in front of the center of gravity, it will directly lead to loss of control, and priority should be given to adjustment. Modifying the nose weight is a good choice, at least that's how I did it.
    Generally, there is only room for enhanced maneuverability when the wing load is reduced to a certain value. At this point, we can start dealing with the issue of the nose falling.
    The nose drop of this aircraft is mainly composed of the following factors:
    1. The tail wing airfoil is incorrect, and the tail lift is too high
    2. The center of gravity of the thrust is higher than the center of gravity, making it easier to lean forward when starting the engine
    There are also some issues related to the overall structure of the aircraft that have been modified too much, so we will skip them.
    In these two points, if you do not want to change the position of the engine, you should use XML to raise the center of gravity of the parts, in order to increase the height of the center of gravity. Of course, some people also reject this approach.
    Therefore, if condition two is not changed, only condition one can be changed.
    However, due to the excessive thrust of this aircraft, simply doing so does not have much effect. To prevent excessive changes to the structure and performance of the aircraft, we can choose to have a single bearing perform multiple controls, combined with pitch, trim, and even pitch rate, to compensate for the shortcomings of VTOL. This FT formula can refer to Hellkeska. Regarding pitchRate, it is related to maneuverability.

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ Dood take your time if you need to. But the drooping problem with this aircraft has never been this bad (Except for the A-10 clones I made which needs the trim all the way down), but yeah take your time, it’s like 3am for me and I’ve been working on this since 8pm

    11 months ago
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    4,088 JSTQ

    @SumDood That's really troublesome... But I really like this, bro. Just a moment, I need to verify my results. I can't mislead people

    11 months ago
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    120 SumDood

    @JSTQ If you don’t mind I would like to try it to get some ideas on how to improve my own and how to avoid it on other aircraft’s I make (I DID THIS ON SEVERAL AIRCRAFT). I also forgot that most people who play this game are on PC and have access to more mods than mobile. (I do mainly want to remove the problem of the nose drooping downwards)

    11 months ago
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