@LeaveUsAlone the point of the ATF program was for an air superiority fighter, which really taken into account maneuverability, not the ability to avoid the enemy entirely, the only reason stealth is a requirement is to avoid detection to get close enough to take down the enemy, besides avoiding the enemy all together kind of defeats the purpose of an air superiority fighter. Ignore all this and you ended up with a situation similar to the early F-4s, where it's a fighter designed more like an interceptor, with no guns and only air to air missiles, it's basically an interceptor used as a fighter, don't get me wrong the phantoms are a great aircraft but it's lack of maneuverability is a big disadvantage.

@AWESOMENESS360 best part is that the YF-23 was faster, you don’t need to dogfight if you can blaze through the enemy formation at Mach 2 and are stealthy enough to avoid enemy fire until you’re out of their range

@AWESOMENESS360 true. theres also rumors that they chose the f22 because it would make the company better or something like that.

Honestly the YF-23 should’ve won the ATF Competition, it was stealthier, had longer range, could carry the same weapons capacity, and in a situation like this, speed and maneuverability absolutely do not matter, seeing that you’re gonna be dealing with missiles that can lock on from well over visible distance. At that point, it’s a dangerous game of countermeasures and attempts to evade. Now if we put the F-22 and the YF-23 in a dogfight situation, within very close proximity to each other, I imagine the F-22 would easily prevail, seeing how ridiculously maneuverable it is. Now if we want to really talk about maneuverability, we can all take a gander at the SU-57, and it’s thrust vectoring capabilities in all axis of direction. But that’s another story.

@Jauntyccmbr thanks

@Nerfaddict Thanks and goodluck with school:)

this looks cool
will check it out once I'm done school (3:30PM GMT-6)

@BombBoi1822 HAHAHAH thanks just fixed the thumbnail

still as epic as the last one