Cannon damage tester Mk3.5 (for kinetic damage only) - impact damage scaler, muzzle velocity, caliber, diameter, explosionScale
New version
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/62Uzfy/Cannon-damage-tester-B-Mk1-block-mass-900000
This contraption lets you see how many cannon rounds (with given muzzle velocity and impactDamageScaler) it takes to destroy a block of given HP, and shows you the approximate average damage of the cannon.
What I wrote below is not conclusive!
Caliber 50mm, muzzle velocity 2000, impactDamageScaler 10
*True caliber on the results above was 50mm, I forgot to change the value on the label. Sorry. (Pretty sure it made no difference)
Caliber 200mm, muzzle velocity 2000, impactDamageScaler 10
Caliber 400mm, muzzle velocity 2000, impactDamageScaler 10
You can use these to see for yourself
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/1TV8yw/Cannon-damage-tester-Mk3-5-200mm
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/03mS0f/Cannon-damage-tester-Mk3-5-400mm
I ran tests more than a dozen times with the variations of this machine, and so far it seems that cannon weapon's kinetic damage is decided as follows:
cannon damage: muzzle velocity multiplied by impactDamageScaler, and game picks either 1/1, 1/2, or 1/3 of that value for each cannon, with every map-restart
Thanks to 11qazxc for pointing out the "high/mid/low damage" RNG thing in the comment section of my first cannon tester.
Caliber of the cannon seems to have no effect on the kinetic damage of a cannon. (It has to do with explosion damage, which was a known thing)
Given the findings so far, I think (though with not 100% confidence) it's safe to say that impactDamageScaler can be thought of as "shell weight."
For extra info, read the discussion in the comments of this build: https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/VuZ4Pf/Damage-mechanics-test-4-explosionScale-impactDamageScaler-explosionScale-muzzl
Don't take my word as fact, though, I encourage you to see it for yourself. This is pretty simple.
Label FT
SPFT - cannon test Mk3.3
<pos=0%>Name<pos=40%>Rnd<pos=70%>AvgDmg
<pos=40%>fired
<pos=0%>Test1<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test1"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test1")))}
<pos=0%>Test2<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test2"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test2")))}
<pos=0%>Test3<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test3"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test3")))}
<pos=0%>Test4<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test4"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test4")))}
<pos=0%>Test5<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test5"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test5")))}
<pos=0%>Test6<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test6"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test6")))}
<pos=0%>Test7<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test7"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test7")))}
<pos=0%>Test8<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test8"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test8")))}
<pos=0%>Test9<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test9"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test9")))}
<pos=0%>Test10<pos=40%>{1000-(ammo("Test10"))}<pos=70%>{round(BlockHP/(1000-(ammo("Test10")))}
<pos=0%>Avg Rnd<pos=50%>{(10000-(ammo("Test10"))-(ammo("Test9"))-(ammo("Test8"))-(ammo("Test7"))-(ammo("Test7"))-(ammo("Test5"))-(ammo("Test4"))-(ammo("Test3"))-(ammo("Test2"))-(ammo("Test1")))/10}
<pos=0%>AvgDmg<pos=50%>{BlockHP/((10000-(ammo("Test10"))-(ammo("Test9"))-(ammo("Test8"))-(ammo("Test7"))-(ammo("Test7"))-(ammo("Test5"))-(ammo("Test4"))-(ammo("Test3"))-(ammo("Test2"))-(ammo("Test1")))/10)}
Specifications
General Characteristics
- Predecessor Cannon damage tester Mk3.4
- Created On iOS
- Wingspan 164.0ft (50.0m)
- Length 265.7ft (81.0m)
- Height 79.1ft (24.1m)
- Empty Weight 4,734,385lbs (2,147,483kg)
- Loaded Weight 4,734,385lbs (2,147,483kg)
Performance
- Wing Loading N/A
- Wing Area 0.0ft2 (0.0m2)
- Drag Points 0
Parts
- Number of Parts 62
- Control Surfaces 0
- Performance Cost 333
@Farewellntchii
Nah, you're good (so far, lol)
Matter in the sense of, durability? I don't think it does either, but I'll do some testing later just to be sure (we should have as much knowledge on the game mechanics as possible).
I think shape is more important than the size though. I would assume a round fuselage is more likely to deflect a shell than a cube, if the collider setting of the former is ConvexMesh.
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Also... below is the result of my explosion damage testings. It's weird.
Cannon: 100mm/explosionScaler 0.1
(impactDamageScaler is set to 0, and muzzle velocity has no effect on explosion damage. 500m/s shell and 999999m/s shell gave me the same result)
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Block
1 HP - takes 1-2 shots (1-0.5 damage)
10 HP - takes 1-5 shots (10-2 damage)
100 HP - takes 3-10 shots (33-10 damage)
500 HP - 14-42 shots (35-12 damage)
750hp - 21-62 shots (35-12 damage)
900hp - 25-49-73 shots (36-12 dmg)
1000hp - 27-54-82 (37-12)
1500hp - 41-122 (37-12)
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10000 hp
estimate: 285-833 (35-12 dmg)
Result: 269-538-539-806-807-808-810 (37.17-12.34 dmg)
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100mm/0.2 ES
HP 10000: insta-kill (10000+ dmg)
Hp 100000: insta kill (100000+)
Hp 1,000,000: instakill
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100mm/0.15 es
Hp 1,000,000: instakill
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200mm/0.05es
HP 1000: 690 - 1036 shots
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200mm/0.1es
Hp 10000 - instakill
Hp 20000 - 2-1 shots
@Farewellntchii
Chii
Sorry it took long, I was mentally occupied.
First, armor and block mass.
I did some testing, and block mass had no noticeable effect on block durability. 1 mass block and 900000 mass block took about the same number of shots (on average) to destroy. You can check my newer damage tester to see this for yourself.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility that mass might affect durability under some circumstances, but for now, we can probably disregard that.
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Second, armor thickness.
I think how much HP in SP amounts to how much armor thickness really depends on how many shots you want the block to survive. (It also needs be scaled to the cannon damage)
Right now, I'm thinking we should determine HP based on survivability than pure armor thickness. I don't want each engagement to drag on forever (I'm thinking battle between ships of the same/similar class should take like 10 mins at most), so a ship shouldn't be too tough, but also shouldn't be too weak.
I'll experiment with stuff, but I think maybe 60 to 80 shots from a gun the ship is armored against might work--I gotta do tests. Type of weapons it has should also be taken into account though. DD class guns has higher rate of fire than battleship guns, so maybe a BB should have less HP (relative to the damage of BB guns--it will of course be way above DD's) in order to balance the time it takes to sink one.
It also depends on how large each buoyancy block is. I think I wanna divide a ship in 7 sections in Z axis (fore-aft), and 2 (maybe 3) sections in X axis. So a ship will have like 12 to 14 (or 19 to 21) individual buoyancy blocks. (7/2 division is for mobile friendliness & simplicity's sake, for tougher ships, it may be better to have more division & less HP for each block, so you don't lose a lot of buoyancy for each block lost)
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(It would be possible to create a more sophisticated system if we had penetration mechanic, but alas we gotta do with what we have.)
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And third, gun damage.
I'm currently using 1kg of shell=1 Ids (impactDamageScaler) conversion, but turns out, high IDS nit only has high HP damage, it also has high "push force."
Which is annoying, since if we wanna use 1 to 1 conversion rate and maintain some realism, we have to make a ship really heavy to counter this... but as you know, rotators don't like really heavy aircraft.
So I think 1/2 or 1/4 the IDS might be a better way to go. This way, we don't have to make ships as heavy to make them heavy enough for the shells.
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With 1 : 1/4 shell: IDS conversion, Mk 7 16 inch gun of Iowa class will still do damage between 233,363-77,788 per shot (wi
@Farewellntchii
You're welcome. And I've worked it out, if we treat impactDamageScaler as the shell weight (1 to 1kg conversion), you get theoretical average damage of about 462,900 damage per broadside for Mogami, with AP.
((920m/s55.9kg15)/0.6)
This is if we translate 1 impactDamageScaler to 1kg of shell weight though. So 55.9kg/55.9 IDS per shot. This results in british 14 inch gun having like 880 IDS, and 8 gun broadside of vanguard will be like 8,800,000... which may be a little too high for simpleplanes (sank beast with a single hit), so I'm thinking half of the might be good enough.
Strange results. It turns out that the damage can be very random, which is not exactly what one would want in a game like SP...
@ThomasRoderick
Answer to the first question, it doesn't. Caliber/diameter does not seem to have any noticeable effect on kinetic damage.
200mm/ids 10
400mm/ids 10
You can use these to see for yourself
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/1TV8yw/Cannon-damage-tester-Mk3-5-200mm
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/03mS0f/Cannon-damage-tester-Mk3-5-400mm
I'm guessing it might be the muzzle velocity equivalent of explosion damage, though that's a blind guess
@ThomasRoderick
1) Lemme test... (I suspect it doesn't matter)
2) With some modifications, yes. You gotta space cannon/block pairs far enough apart from other pairs, so they don't destroy stuff or mess with the results.
Two quick questions:
First, does the impactDamageScalar scale with caliber? (
Scalarof 50mm × 1 =Scalarof 25mm × 2, for example)Second, does the same system also work with explosives?
@rexzion @Farewellntchii @MyReaktorIsLeak @DimitriIqbal91
You were on my "people who may be interested in this finding" list. I am truly sorry.
(Let me know if you aren't, or don't want to get tagged)
@11qazxc @ThomasRoderick @Astro12 @wernster
(Sorry for the repeated tagging,)
I think we have a pretty good idea on how cannon damage works and is calculated (ignoring the velocity drop over time)