I did it

@marcox43 Not my Navy, because I’ve got an org chart for it.

Goodnight tho.

@Pilotmario I understand your point, but as you said, you didn't know the number of vessels and so on, on the other hand, staffel distrusted your may or not have been humanitarian aid. anyways even if you want to argue over this the whole week, the server has been deleted and so staffel's navy, my navy, your navy and everyone's too. So the war is over and I'm going to sleep, good night.

@marcox43

On the matter of the use of “excessive force,” the decision to launch the strike was based on an assumption to the worst-case scenario and the limited information I had to work with, namely “a lot of patrol boats” according to the moderator who rolled the (highly successful) recon roll. And “a lot” can mean well, a lot. It could be 30 boats or 300 boats.

Had I known about the force composition, I would have likely used weapons like AGM-123 Skipjack II, which is basically a standard US Mk 83 1,000lb bomb with a Paveway laser-guidance kit and a rocket motor, Hellfire ATGM from helicopters, or the Maverick TV-guided missiles. And there isn’t anything necessarily wrong with opening up with a strike with the power of God’s hands.

As for the fact they are mere “peacekeeping forces,” the whole point of a UN-type peacekeeping presence is the use of force to deter action by belligerents. Their capabilities are largely dependent on the resources devoted by the state deploying said forces. As the presence of these forces was to achieve a deterrent effect, having sufficient offensive firepower to compel rogue military units to surrender is key.

I never disputed whether he should deploy peacekeeping forces. He considered the aircraft carrier group’s presence to be “egoistical” and don’t really have a use in humanitarian operations. Never mind that aircraft carriers IRL are frequently used in such operations, but there you go. I suppose a 100,000-ton speedy floating airport capable with the ability to prepare tens of thousands of hot meals, serve as a base for aerial distribution of humanitarian aid, treat hundreds of people in sanitary and advanced medical facilities, power an entire city, and coordinate the actions of hundreds of watercraft and aircraft used in the effort at the same time isn’t useful for humanitarian aid. I suppose the US Navy is totally lying and doesn’t know anything about a class of ships they’ve been using for almost a century.

Believe me, you don't want to bring RP back to the site. You moved it off the site to avoid getting banned for frequent heated arguments, and bringing it back here resurrects that danger. Wouldn't it be better to just make a new server and run it better?

I suggest having a moderating and administrative crew that is not a part of any faction for the sake of fairness, as well as strict rules. That way, RP might actually work.

@MrVaultech @Pilotmario as having read the whole thread when the server was online, I suppose this is a mistake for both parts, one for not having an early warning system or adequate spotting equipment and the other for excessive use of force. Even if it's just Patrol boats, they can be quite fast and good at evading stuff, so there goes a fault for Staffel, and as for Pilot, completely ignoring the sentence of "there's a peacekeeping fleet here" and firing an excessive amount of missiles.

So you literally assumed that a peacekeeping fleet of patrol boats- wait, I'm pretty sure I already told you this in server. Either way, you still refuse to listen to most anything I say in these situations, so it's wasted typing.
@Pilotmario

@RocCrafter101 You are correct. I expected that a naval formation known as the Primary Fleet would at least have large capital ships and some degree of protection against anti-shipping missiles.

With you as their adviser, I expected that if he was supplying his forces by sea, he'd at least use large surface combatants with sophisticated anti-missile defense systems.

@MrVaultech Also, there wasn't a rule which stopped me from starting off with modern and highly organized armed forces.

That may be true, but lets not gloss over the fact he rolled up to Greenland where I was peacekeeping, with light offensive capabilities, in a super carrier fleet.
Not to mention that whole war started because I had literally asked him not to send a fleet over to replace mine, mostly because he asked in such an egotistical manner that was just dripping with a superiority complex. I've bound to have a screenshot somewhere around of it, and will gladly link it if I find it.
(Okay, so I don't but I do have a number of screenshots of messages well after with just as much of an ego as the initial message that started everything)
@RocCrafter101

@MrVaultech most of your attack boats lacked close in defense systems or mid ring defense. You may have had spotting with you in the form of helicopters, but that can’t do much of you have very little ways to stop an attack.
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He expected a very very large force and fired an excessive amount of missiles, that’s the issue. He sunk the peacekeeping force on lack of information canonically. (But outside of canon, he probably was just being a jerk, lol.)
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I’ve used similar tactics to justify actions against nations but with arguably a better alibi. It’s a low blow but it’s valid.
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Also, it’s not all about technology. Tactics play a role.

You really took in everything I told you about my and allies navies; we don't have carriers, and likely wouldn't for a while. Wanna know why? I've only been doing this for 3 months, while most everyone else had been as well or shorter. You don't expect people to start crapping out super carriers just barely 3 months into something like this.
And hey, lemme tell ya how things went with my peacekeeping fleet!
He literally fired 240 missiles at them before they could retaliate. 80% of my patrol boats and light cruisers gone just from the first strike, even accounting for their defensive measures and aircraft.
@RocCrafter101

We’re sure he did. @RocCrafter101
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I have a sneaking suspision that was the feelings of IDAFOR members and ignoring everyone elses thoughts.

@MrVaultech
An explanation to that would be his use of carrier borne aircraft and mid air refuelling, allowing for aircraft to deployed from very very far away bases. (Falklands where they literally sent Bombers across the Atlantic from Europe using mid air refuelling to strike targets far south).

Depending on the types of ships, they can pretty quickly respond to landings (Fast Patrol Boats, Hydrofoils, maybe Ekranoplans if he’s into that). Destroyers can strike more than 250km away with cruise missiles. They don’t have to get within very close proximity if proper spotting is present such as low observable drones, forces already present, AWACS, satellite imaging or blindly firing a missile at the general area and hoping the seeker picks up a threat on its own.

Has he ever shown any proof of him having any semblance of realism in the server? No, quite the opposite. I've heard from my allies that during the main battle in the north that he was basically teleporting aircraft to the frontline from way further than possible, and basically teleporting ships to try and intercept any naval landings.
He wasn't going to run any chances of losing this, you can't deny that.
@RocCrafter101

@MrVaultech
Yeah, he’s done that before in response to valid counter tactics.

@KDS
I’m not saying Doxxing isn’t a crime. I’m just questioning the validity of the accusation that Pilot actually threatened a Doxxing or whether it was a loose assumption.
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It was suggested that more complex tactics should be banned in other RPs but it was considered to basically be “dumbing things down” and I want that in the nicest way that could be put.
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Primary issue with IDAFOR is that they don’t have a formidable opposition. Kinda similar to NATO and Warsaw Pact. Since they have no equal counter, they’re free to pretty much beat down smaller nations that don’t have a “Mother Russia” to hide behind from America.

Do you really think Pilot would ever take that into consideration? You think he'd ever show any semblance of realistic morale at the cost of him losing?
@RocCrafter101

@MrVaultech Ok.
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But... fighting Guerrillas is about appealing and winning over the hearts and minds of the people.
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These tactics rely on the support of the people to actually work as they need somewhere to blend in, receive supplies and information.
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Winning over the population is how to defeat them. As well as cutting off the flow of weapons to the country.
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The US lost in Vietnam as they believed that firepower was all that was needed to win the war.

I remember that well, it’s also what made me heavily concerned about doxxing threats. They actually have basically have before on others in the past. @MrVaultech

Or perhaps these “tactics” of being a general horrible person should be banned all together in practic for the more casual members just trying to have a fun time over being obsessed with “winning” at all costs, over a discord/SP RP... As all they have proven to do is annoy people, set a bad impression of who you are as a person to everyone, and as obviously proven, heavily dosplease moderators. Also, doxxing is a real world crime and threatening it could be pointed as blackmail, something that could be brung to a real world civil court. Do you think that’s worth it or approprite for something as small and overall reduntant beyond a source of entertainment? @RocCrafter101

@Pilotmario dude don't bring mods in this whatever is happening here isn't leaving this forum so just untag him m8

@RocCrafter101
In reference to the doxxing, you have to remember that while this is a country-based RP, these are all run by individuals. Threats of doxxing are literally directed at a single person and Pilot would be very aware of that.
Hell, other members of IDA literally dug up private info on CptJacobson, of which are beyond personal and are actually borderline doxxing.
Oh wait! That stuff got out to a few members in the server! It makes me think that IDA as a whole isn't below actually doxxing someone!

@EternalDarkness Uhh... this thread may require some moderation here. I know you don't get involved in RPs at all, and I can see why. Some of the statements by certain individuals can be considered libel, as they have no basis in the truth.

What server?

@MrVaultech
I... am not much better...
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I’ve began almost every war on the SP2030 server and used methods worse than shooting down simple drones but never to the point of attacking people offline. The doxxing accusation against Pilot can’t be proven either.
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Those tactics, other than the offline stuff and “Doxxing”, are valid tactics real world forces can use such as the case of Vietnam. It’s just that proper responses to them were never taken. The excessive use of anti-ship missiles was caused by a lack of knowledge of the composition of your force.
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I’ve fought Pilot before and he used the same tactics against me and they really peeved me. But I did some research into countering said tactics and how to use them for myself. Most of them only work against opponents unaware of the issues of them. I know I may have “stooped to his level” but these aren’t grounds to ban someone. They’re reasons to improve and rise to counter them. I know we kind of got off on the wrong foot... but yeah. I agree, Pilot can be a jerk at times but... other than issues with using timezone, and if he actually threatened a dox, his methods are valid and should be countered through self improvement, not discouragement.