Wings have a bug:
With some combination of scale and shape they will glitch and flap like bird's wing,
usually in air airplane with such technology flies at speed about 6000 km/h,
but water have 1000x density,
so it's possible to fly without glitches in air and quickly accelerate in water.
Also wings with negative area will have negative drag, but it will crash your game in some parts of second.
In game any target despawns if range>16 km.
Exceptions is dogfight, (maybe)race, and multiplayer.
You can't change this range if you don't have exact location of this value in executable or source code of a game.
Duct fan mainly use for increasing the efficiently of propeller.
. I know, but in SP it works just like any other fuselage(block,rotator,gyro,or anything with drag).
Propeller is work by "moving a large volume of air at low velocity"
. Understandable. Understandable, it's not true in SP, because there's no airstreams(1) in SP.
Propeller suffer increase drag an it spin faster regardless.
. Blade It have mesh of each blade only if angular speed is small enough, if it spins it have mesh of Block-2, and it's drag is constant.
. Heliblades No, i just tested it annd it's drag is constant.
. Jet It's just a block with constant force aplied to it, so it's drag is constant.
. So, it's not true in SP.
Why don't we have multi rotor combat aircraft irl
. Because IRL we have other laws of motion and can't edit it.
why don't we have supersonic jet camera drone.
. If "drone" is something man-portable: It's not supersonic, but 740 kph is good too, and nothing stops you from building a supersonic fpv drone if you need it.
. If "drone" is any unmanned flying vehicle: Lockheed D-21,Tu-123 and a lot of projects.
.
(1) Any detail mounted directly behind any detail just don't cares about it.
@trios21 You probably forgot about wings.
SP can't really calculate real-time aerodynamics, so it calculates very long expression, i proved that for std wing it uses aspect ratio and airfoil.
I'm still not sure about reynolds number, because most of numbers is pre-calculated in designer, so probably it uses chord instead.
Calculated number is multiplied in-flight by second power of IAS, cosine of Angle of Slip, Angle of attack multiplied by sort of polynom given by airfoil, and wing area.
So, to increase glide ratio(and thus decrease drag) you need
minimal wing chord,
maximal aspect ratio, (at some point it will start to flap it's wings)
Symmetric airfoil,
minimal angle of slip,
angle of attack between 0 and 3 deegres.
UPD: all above is a lie, perhaps my instruments wasn't very accurate back then.
AoA is what matters. Highest glide ratio you can get is ~97 for ~8deg AoA with symmetric wing.
conventional aircraft have less drag ..., the main source of drag ... the rotor itself
You can use ducted fan.
as it spin faster the more drag it have to overcome
Yes, When rotor spins fast enough, speed of wingtip at one side of the rotor is double the speed of craft,
but speed at other side of rotor is near-zero, so overall drag is same at any speed.
not to mention the tip of the rotor going super sonic which is a whole new set of problems.
IRL some propellers can have speed of tip more than speed of sound, so, it's just possible.
IIRC, SP don't have any difference between M0.5 and M2, you can even build hypersonic airplane with straight flat-bottom wings.
About the engine, airplane engine is big, fighter is just an engine with just enough wing to make it fly
If it have wings literally just to make it fly, it's a modern missile, not airplane. Airplane need really big wings, because it need lift 2-3 (for cargo aircrafts) or even 6-12 times more than it's mass, else it will not be able to turn fast enough without loss in altitude.
so adding more engines means adding more accommodating component and if those added engines was not in use
If you can turn engine, you can use it in any case.
it'll be just deadweight.
Like landing gears or human?
Well, maybe.
The point is there is a lot to balance
Creators of Twin mustang, Lightning, A6M will laugh.
and the best fighter aircraft isn't the one that have the best performance but the one that have the best balance.
Well, if you can't make use of non-typical aircraft perfomance, or you need universal aircraft to fly in forest and intercept missiles.
Else, attempt to balance a craft is nothing.
Yes, it will not able to fly as long as a plane, but in dogfight with AG1+AG2 this plane in most cases uses wings just as airbrakes, so it can be swapped with airbrakes, and heli rotors itself can be used as pretty good wings.
.
and drag
No, it even may have less drag than generic airplane because it doesn't need wings, control surfaces, et c., and can be shaped like a droplet.
.
and weight
2*2 additional small heli rotors will weight like 900kg with default settings, or even less if you will use jet-1, i don't think it's too much.
.
If i understood correctly, this airplane have only four deegres of freedom: vec3 Pitch,Roll,Yaw for rotation&COT position control,
and Throttle for acceleration parallel to heading,
anything else is linked to difference of rotation and velocity vectors,
and you can not control it without change in airplane orientation.
.
If you have >3 omnidirectional, or >12 one-directional thrusters, you can have six deegres of freedom: vec3 Roll,Pitch,Yaw for rotation(COT position remains constant and equal to COM position),
and vec3 for acceleration,
both rotation and acceleration can not act on each other.
.
All said will work just-as-planned only in SP physics, because IRL rotors need space in front of it and behind it, and will act on air moving around craft.
.
If you need proof of concept, you can see spefyjerbf's builds, or read this paper.
@Kangy @SPMTB OK.
In any case human is weakest element of plane, and we need to replace it, because in videogame with such possibilities 9G is just nothing.
@Kangy
Maybe, the point is not only g-force, but also time?
1000G acceleration multiplied by 250ns time gives velocity of 2 with half millimeters per second, you can't even feel that, and it will be absorbed by meat.
Technically, human may not die because of acceleration.
@LieutenantSOT
1. Rules didn't said that it must be manned, but human can withstand 1000+G(in some directions, for some parts of second).
2. Can real aircraft be a dragon with miniguns in wing edges? There's a few realistic aircrafts in this challenge, and almost all of them in upper part of post.
3. My craft doesn't have missiles.
4. Fair and square and realistic means we must have 4vs4 battle instead of 1vs1, long-range(50+km) radars and missiles and realistic physics where hidden panel in tube can't produce lift, and physics are the same for wings, panels, blocks, and fuselages.
.
Also, user TMach doesn't exist. Instead you can try to call TMach5.
@AntiAirNuri About xml wars:
1. Nobody still built a plane that have good appearance and can turn with 200+G at 12 km(it's possible, really),
2. I just don't have time to improve design of random 300+part concept airplane that i saw in dreams. This "penis" have only 37 drag points, it's shape is perfect for 2x speed of sound in SP universe, and very good for real life(with some minor modifications).
3. This shape is used in most IRL SAM and ABM, and they don't have decorations. Why should i attach decorations to craft, that may die in two with half seconds?
4. It's a dogfight challenge, not airshow.
No exploiting glitches old engines or any parts may have
What is counted as "glitches"?
How max GS will be measured?
Max plane size limit?
What if i edit in-game designer instead of editing xml?
What if i edit designer's preferences instead of xml?
What is Unweighted GS and Weighted GS in results table?
@SPMTB challenge objective is to destroy planes.
In games humans usually destroys planes with missiles. (IRL less than ten planes destroyed with missiles in XXI century)
But it must be able to fly some frames after enemy destroyed, so instead of frag i mounted a gun on it.
What's wrong?
I tested it on S-381T (iirc it's was most maneuverable plane in the challenge) and AMI TF-33M1A (because of it's missiles), and it won, but fight with Nightfury Inferno v2 was long and didn't finished in ten minutes.
So, probably, it's good enough.
@Bonelesspizza
I know it.
I set deflection angle to 25 deegres because AI oversteers even with this small angle, and if you have big control surface with small deflection angle you will need less energy to turn.
About wing loading, at some point it's lift was too big and it just started flying at 4Mm/h without any possibility of control. This is the reason why it's speed limited to 1300 km/h
I agree with @AN2Felllla .
Also, in general situation like paneling binary search a lot faster than triangulation and precise enough.
Instead of calculating position of each triangle you can attach triangles to rods and then just rotate it around rods.
UPD: for binary search you don't need any program opened other than SP(even a calculator), and no more than 60 clicks for maximum possible precision(iirc SP uses single pecision floating point format for part position).
Why do you need airplane?
It's wings can't work effectively at angle of attack above 20, it's hull have a lot of drag, and it's propulsion system uses over 20% of its power just for turning.
Did you tried to rotate main wing relative to angle of attack?
Did you tried to move thrusters into center of mass?
Maybe omniderictional propulsion, like on aurora starfury, but with airbrakes will be better for post-stall maneuvers?
Can it have legs with many segments?
Can it have tentacles instead of legs?
How many legs|tentacles can it have?
Weapon types allowed?
Is force fields allowed?
Is self-repair allowed?
Is jumping|caterpillar designs allowed?
Any min|max size restrictions?
Must it be manned, or can it be semi-automatic|remote controlled?
But if you don't need altitude above 1 meter and you don't need to hover above water, you can edit resizeable wheels xml size to very small value on y axis and big value on z axis.
Wings have a bug:
With some combination of scale and shape they will glitch and flap like bird's wing,
usually in air airplane with such technology flies at speed about 6000 km/h,
but water have 1000x density,
so it's possible to fly without glitches in air and quickly accelerate in water.
Also wings with negative area will have negative drag, but it will crash your game in some parts of second.
You can use wings with high aspect ratio to do the same thing.
Sometimes it even works without water.
In game any target despawns if range>16 km.
+1Exceptions is dogfight, (maybe)race, and multiplayer.
You can't change this range if you don't have exact location of this value in executable or source code of a game.
with a good picture you can sell anything.
Duct fan mainly use for increasing the efficiently of propeller.
. I know, but in SP it works just like any other fuselage(block,rotator,gyro,or anything with drag).
Propeller is work by "moving a large volume of air at low velocity"
. Understandable. Understandable, it's not true in SP, because there's no airstreams(1) in SP.
Propeller suffer increase drag an it spin faster regardless.
. Blade It have mesh of each blade only if angular speed is small enough, if it spins it have mesh of Block-2, and it's drag is constant.
. Heliblades No, i just tested it annd it's drag is constant.
. Jet It's just a block with constant force aplied to it, so it's drag is constant.
. So, it's not true in SP.
Why don't we have multi rotor combat aircraft irl
. Because IRL we have other laws of motion and can't edit it.
why don't we have supersonic jet camera drone.
. If "drone" is something man-portable: It's not supersonic, but 740 kph is good too, and nothing stops you from building a supersonic fpv drone if you need it.
. If "drone" is any unmanned flying vehicle: Lockheed D-21,Tu-123 and a lot of projects.
.
(1) Any detail mounted directly behind any detail just don't cares about it.
@trios21 You probably forgot about wings.
SP can't really calculate real-time aerodynamics, so it calculates very long expression, i proved that for std wing it uses aspect ratio and airfoil.
I'm still not sure about reynolds number, because most of numbers is pre-calculated in designer, so probably it uses chord instead.
Calculated number is multiplied in-flight by second power of IAS, cosine of Angle of Slip, Angle of attack multiplied by sort of polynom given by airfoil, and wing area.
So, to increase glide ratio(and thus decrease drag) you need
minimal wing chord,
maximal aspect ratio, (at some point it will start to flap it's wings)
Symmetric airfoil,
minimal angle of slip,
angle of attack between 0 and 3 deegres.
UPD: all above is a lie, perhaps my instruments wasn't very accurate back then.
AoA is what matters. Highest glide ratio you can get is ~97 for ~8deg AoA with symmetric wing.
You can use ducted fan.
Yes, When rotor spins fast enough, speed of wingtip at one side of the rotor is double the speed of craft,
but speed at other side of rotor is near-zero, so overall drag is same at any speed.
IRL some propellers can have speed of tip more than speed of sound, so, it's just possible.
IIRC, SP don't have any difference between M0.5 and M2, you can even build hypersonic airplane with straight flat-bottom wings.
If it have wings literally just to make it fly, it's a modern missile, not airplane. Airplane need really big wings, because it need lift 2-3 (for cargo aircrafts) or even 6-12 times more than it's mass, else it will not be able to turn fast enough without loss in altitude.
If you can turn engine, you can use it in any case.
Like landing gears or human?
Well, maybe.
Creators of Twin mustang, Lightning, A6M will laugh.
Well, if you can't make use of non-typical aircraft perfomance, or you need universal aircraft to fly in forest and intercept missiles.
Else, attempt to balance a craft is nothing.
@Dracul0Anderson
Explosive one in nose is Cannon-1 added in 1.9, and four in wings is just Gun-1|Gun-2 parts.
Yes, it will not able to fly as long as a plane, but in dogfight with AG1+AG2 this plane in most cases uses wings just as airbrakes, so it can be swapped with airbrakes, and heli rotors itself can be used as pretty good wings.
.
No, it even may have less drag than generic airplane because it doesn't need wings, control surfaces, et c., and can be shaped like a droplet.
.
2*2 additional small heli rotors will weight like 900kg with default settings, or even less if you will use jet-1, i don't think it's too much.
.
If i understood correctly, this airplane have only four deegres of freedom:
vec3 Pitch,Roll,Yaw for rotation&COT position control,.and Throttle for acceleration parallel to heading,
anything else is linked to difference of rotation and velocity vectors,
and you can not control it without change in airplane orientation
.
If you have >3 omnidirectional, or >12 one-directional thrusters, you can have six deegres of freedom:
vec3 Roll,Pitch,Yaw for rotation(COT position remains constant and equal to COM position),.and vec3 for acceleration,
both rotation and acceleration can not act on each other
.
All said will work just-as-planned only in SP physics, because IRL rotors need space in front of it and behind it, and will act on air moving around craft.
.
If you need proof of concept, you can see spefyjerbf's builds, or read this paper.
You can use smooth function to store numbers and make sort of self-teaching system.
And i still think that spaceship|multirotor will be better beacuse it isn't limited by wings and one-directional thruster.
Actually, this is what IRL named Control Moment Gyro and used in old orbital stations, toys , et c..
You can make it a lot better, if you use four blocks instead of one disk.
clamp01(VTOL<0)
I don't know will it work as
activationGroup, but (in theory) it must work asBeaconLightinput.this is not a new idea
@trios21 It's okay, go ahead.
@trios21 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sears%E2%80%93Haack_body ,
and some knowledge about SP wing physics.
5 Inf, but AltitudeAgl said like 720 meters when i placed cockpit just under sea level.
How did you tested max speed?
Looks like 1/4 of wind speed is not so good for a yacht.
Ok.
Is VTOL||SSTO||UFO allowed?
My entry
@Kangy @SPMTB OK.
+1In any case human is weakest element of plane, and we need to replace it, because in videogame with such possibilities 9G is just nothing.
@Kangy proof or gtfo.
Модераторы могут не оценить такие шутки, ну да фиг с ним.
Не ругайтесь матом, пожалуйста, за соблюдением правил на этом сайте всё ещё следят.
@Kangy
Maybe, the point is not only g-force, but also time?
1000G acceleration multiplied by 250ns time gives velocity of 2 with half millimeters per second, you can't even feel that, and it will be absorbed by meat.
Technically, human may not die because of acceleration.
It's not regular, length of edges aren't same.
horizontal edges are 5m length, but vertical ones are
sqrt(5*5+2.5*2.5+2.5*2.5)=6.12372435696m@LieutenantSOT
1. Rules didn't said that it must be manned, but human can withstand 1000+G(in some directions, for some parts of second).
2. Can real aircraft be a dragon with miniguns in wing edges? There's a few realistic aircrafts in this challenge, and almost all of them in upper part of post.
3. My craft doesn't have missiles.
4. Fair and square and realistic means we must have 4vs4 battle instead of 1vs1, long-range(50+km) radars and missiles and realistic physics where hidden panel in tube can't produce lift, and physics are the same for wings, panels, blocks, and fuselages.
.
Also, user TMach doesn't exist. Instead you can try to call TMach5.
@AntiAirNuri About xml wars:
1. Nobody still built a plane that have good appearance and can turn with 200+G at 12 km(it's possible, really),
2. I just don't have time to improve design of random 300+part concept airplane that i saw in dreams. This "penis" have only 37 drag points, it's shape is perfect for 2x speed of sound in SP universe, and very good for real life(with some minor modifications).
3. This shape is used in most IRL SAM and ABM, and they don't have decorations. Why should i attach decorations to craft, that may die in two with half seconds?
4. It's a
dogfightchallenge, not airshow.fix brackets around photo of ShotgunGarbageFly, it doesn't displays correctly.
@stevemc01 idk about gun, but it actually uses BT-7 chassis.
+1@redcrafter idk then. Gears have drag and weight, but it still must be able to fly.
@redcrafter If it's because of landing gears you can start in air.
Prizes?
Rules?
Anything?
0:21 You can just change your IP address, or is it too hard for SP users?
Can i swap my plane to newer version?
What is counted as "glitches"?
How max GS will be measured?
Max plane size limit?
What if i edit in-game designer instead of editing xml?
What if i edit designer's preferences instead of xml?
What is Unweighted GS and Weighted GS in results table?
@TrojanAircraftSystems i already have one from canceled stealth challenge, so i will try.
@SPMTB challenge objective is to destroy planes.
In games humans usually destroys planes with missiles. (IRL less than ten planes destroyed with missiles in XXI century)
But it must be able to fly some frames after enemy destroyed, so instead of frag i mounted a gun on it.
What's wrong?
I tested it on S-381T (iirc it's was most maneuverable plane in the challenge) and AMI TF-33M1A (because of it's missiles), and it won, but fight with Nightfury Inferno v2 was long and didn't finished in ten minutes.
So, probably, it's good enough.
Is helicopters allowed?
Did you mean any spaceships or with starwars-style physics only?
@SPMTB can it participate, or do i need to change something?
@Bonelesspizza
I know it.
I set deflection angle to 25 deegres because AI oversteers even with this small angle, and if you have big control surface with small deflection angle you will need less energy to turn.
About wing loading, at some point it's lift was too big and it just started flying at 4Mm/h without any possibility of control. This is the reason why it's speed limited to 1300 km/h
I agree with @AN2Felllla .
Also, in general situation like paneling binary search a lot faster than triangulation and precise enough.
Instead of calculating position of each triangle you can attach triangles to rods and then just rotate it around rods.
UPD: for binary search you don't need any program opened other than SP(even a calculator), and no more than 60 clicks for maximum possible precision(iirc SP uses single pecision floating point format for part position).
i will disassemble it first, because i don't need another death os.
Can i edit xml values except health?
If yes, does custom AI counts as auto-aim?
Can it be supermaneuverable?
@MaliciousMuffin
F18 have research modification, it named High Alpha Research Vehicle, and it can fly at aoa >60.
T
Why do you need airplane?
It's wings can't work effectively at angle of attack above 20, it's hull have a lot of drag, and it's propulsion system uses over 20% of its power just for turning.
Did you tried to rotate main wing relative to angle of attack?
Did you tried to move thrusters into center of mass?
Maybe omniderictional propulsion, like on aurora starfury, but with airbrakes will be better for post-stall maneuvers?
Does kangaroo counts as a walker?
Can it have legs with many segments?
Can it have tentacles instead of legs?
How many legs|tentacles can it have?
Weapon types allowed?
Is force fields allowed?
Is self-repair allowed?
Is jumping|caterpillar designs allowed?
Any min|max size restrictions?
Must it be manned, or can it be semi-automatic|remote controlled?
But if you don't need altitude above 1 meter and you don't need to hover above water, you can edit resizeable wheels xml size to very small value on
yaxis and big value onzaxis.