@SpiritusRaptor Thanks! Definitely considering doing a half scale, maybe this weekend. There are also a couple minor things that I noticed that I think I could improve.
We've had 2 Unlimited Class and 2 Mod Class, but only one Prop Class so far. My guess is that it'll be a prop class tournament, maybe on the Trench Run course.
And they'll probably ban the old prop engines on this one to keep it more fair than the previous prop class.
I assume it's on a case-by-case basis, at the discretion of the moderators.
I'm not a moderator so I can't really say, but if it were up to me any successors that were obviously low-effort attempts at riding the coattails of a better builder would be removed.
"I made it faster" would not be a good enough improvement. "I painted it green" would not be a good enough improvement. "I put guns/bombs on it" would not be a good enough improvement.
If you take a design that somebody has obviously spent hours and hours on, slap some BFEs or rocket pods all over it in 30 seconds, paint it pink and upload it saying that you "made it better" I would remove it immediately and punch you through the internet if I could.
So version 2 of my entry does it in exactly 2:00 on the nose every time. I kinda want to enter it just because of that.
I'm also on version 7 right now, and I only save new versions when they are faster than the previous one. I'll be ironing out the handling errors later today, but it's at maybe 95% completion and it crashes so infrequently that I'm having trouble pinning down exactly what goes wrong when it does. I may roll back to a slower version just to be safe.
Because it doesn't need to be faster. Points are worthless: they cannot be spent or exchanged or traded. It doesn't matter if you get the points now or in a week. You still got the points, right? Why do you need to know IMMEDIATELY what your new points total is?
Adding a live points readout is not something the devs should even bother with. It's completely useless and would only take time away from the already huge list of things they're working very hard on.
I know it makes me sound old, but jesus christ can't you guys go an hour without instant gratification? Have you never had to wait for anything in your life?
User scores are literally a popularity contest. The upvote system makes it that way, just like reddit. And just like on reddit, the number of upvotes does not necessarily determine the quality of the submission, only its popularity.
And there are a couple ways to become popular. One of them is by building good aircraft and hoping they get noticed. Another is by being very active in the community and making friends. Most of the top users do a little of both. Many of the "undiscovered" users are not making an effort in the social aspect of this community. It works the other way, too. A lot of the high-point users who aren't great at building have made friends with a bunch of people who will upvote their submissions.
We tried a 5-star system. It was abused horribly by the majority of users, who chose to ignore the merit-based ratings. Rating anything less than 5 stars got people really pissed off at you, even if you left an explanation. People would also use low ratings as revenge against users they didn't like, or who gave them sub 5-star ratings.
Not all of the users with the most points will make the best aircraft. It's just inherent to the system. But remember, the current exchange rate for Internet Points to USD is holding at a very stable $0.00.
@BRuthless even with the new rule, I suspect that this tournament will follow the others in that the winner will not be the fastest plane.
I've been eliminated by crashing in 3/4 of the tournaments so far, so I'm developing my entry with consistency as the top priority. Speed is still important, of course, but for me anything that's not finishing at 100% is unacceptable.
Hey, this is definitely using parts from My Chinook. I like what you've done with it, but please do not circumvent the Successor system, and at least give me credit.
@RyneKuczy Don't worry, the touristy parts of DC are some of the safest places in America. The national mall, the monuments, the museums and all the big federal buildings are all heavily watched and guarded. Nobody is going to be mugging school kids at the Smithsonian in broad daylight.
If you can, check out the Air & Space museum. Most of the bigger planes (like the SR-71, the Enola Gay, the Concorde, and the Space Shuttle Discovery) are out at the Udvar-Hazy center, but the main Air & Space Museum in DC still has lots of planes including the Bell X-1, the Spirit of St. Louis, the Wright Flyer, and a bunch of the early spaceflight projects.
This plane has 2 VTOL engines and a 1x1x5 fuselage block all stacked on top of each other. The cockpit is the smallest cockpit block available, and it is also nudged into the main trunk of the aircraft.
The wings are all double-stacked to reduce wing loading, and the VTOL thruster is embedded into the fuselage as well. The CoM, CoL and CoT are balanced to within .001 on the vertical axis, and the fuel tank is perfectly balanced on the CoM so that the CoM does not move as the plane consumes fuel.
The plane carries barely enough fuel to complete the Daredevil course, crossing the finish line with 4% in the tank. The tail surfaces are set to semi-symmetric airfoil shape to cancel out the nose-up tendency from the main wings and keep the plane level and stable at high speeds.
It looks simple and only contains 17 parts, but there's quite a lot of thought that goes into the design.
@KingDeadshot I've had my logo removed from a couple copies. I've also tried to use XML comments to 'tag' the aircraft in a hidden way, but the upload system seems to strip the comments out of the XML code, unfortunately.
It's true. The only way it was possible to have an external engine work was to have it connected by a detacher bound to group 8, which was automatically detached as soon as the race started. Andrew has fixed that glitch by turning off Group 8 auto-activation.
Any aircraft designed to detach their engines will now remain attached, and any blocks which are not attached to the main body of the aircraft (like debris fields intended to wreck the opponent, or external, non-connected engines) will not even be loaded into the game.
I know that part of the fun of building a racer is trying to push the limits of the rules to gain an advantage, but the rules are in place to keep things as fair and as close as possible. External VTOL engines were both unrealistic and unfair. You're just going to have to find a way to make a legit plane fly the course well.
@SteadfastContracting That's impressively slow. But actually, with the number of crashes that I'm sure we'll see, a slow-but-steady plane probably has a decent chance to make it to the semifinals.
@Baldovino There's also the issue of the "opponent" position still starting about 5 feet above the ground, which makes this a very difficult race to test.
My plane is near 100% completion as the primary, but something about the way it bounces in the opponent position throws it off completely and it crashes about 75% of the time. It's unfortunate because each plane will either be Primary or Opponent twice, but there's no way to know which. Also since the dev version that runs the tournaments is slightly different, it's sort of impossible to tune a plane to be 100% reliable in the Opponent position.
@SpiritusRaptor @Baldovino This isn't confirmed, but from looking at the scripts that control it, I'm pretty sure that the AI "learns" in a way, but only saves the data until you load another plane. In the tournaments, I believe the plane is re-downloaded between every match, erasing the "learned" information and giving both planes a fresh start, essentially.
If a plane wrecks the first time on your system and you restart without exiting the level, its behavior is not necessarily what you'll see in the tournament.
FPS is also key. The AI can only made a decision once per frame. I had to lower my settings because I was getting FPS drops just before some of the rings, and the stutter was causing strange decisions resulting in mostly nosedives. If you're seeing different behavior with the same plane it may be FPS-related.
@Seraphinium The 'missed ring' bug is fixed in the version of SimplePlanes that they have been using for the tournaments. If you're sure you are making the rings, don't worry about it. :)
@SpiritusRaptor Thanks! Definitely considering doing a half scale, maybe this weekend. There are also a couple minor things that I noticed that I think I could improve.
Lol okay buddy.
@Skua The detached guns on my proxy missile system seem to function properly. Maybe try linking the gun to the same activation group as the detacher?
I turn the weather off for building/testing because the darkness screws with the colors, but then I always forget to turn it back on.
@AviownCorp I would maybe add some air brakes to slow it down a little faster, but otherwise it's got good performance.
Very fast, very stable!
Oh good, another moron who thinks that editing XML values is cheating. Let's all laugh at him.
We've had 2 Unlimited Class and 2 Mod Class, but only one Prop Class so far. My guess is that it'll be a prop class tournament, maybe on the Trench Run course.
And they'll probably ban the old prop engines on this one to keep it more fair than the previous prop class.
Beat mine. Have an upvote!
Amazing attention to detail. Better than mine!
@Skua Don't forget the mandatory physical exam, psychological evaluation, and the drug testing. It's required for all moderator applicants.
@Nickasaurus
Otto Pilot?
@JetstreamAeroEngineering I meant what guns. :P
Whatcha shootin'?
I assume it's on a case-by-case basis, at the discretion of the moderators.
I'm not a moderator so I can't really say, but if it were up to me any successors that were obviously low-effort attempts at riding the coattails of a better builder would be removed.
"I made it faster" would not be a good enough improvement. "I painted it green" would not be a good enough improvement. "I put guns/bombs on it" would not be a good enough improvement.
If you take a design that somebody has obviously spent hours and hours on, slap some BFEs or rocket pods all over it in 30 seconds, paint it pink and upload it saying that you "made it better" I would remove it immediately and punch you through the internet if I could.
So version 2 of my entry does it in exactly 2:00 on the nose every time. I kinda want to enter it just because of that.
I'm also on version 7 right now, and I only save new versions when they are faster than the previous one. I'll be ironing out the handling errors later today, but it's at maybe 95% completion and it crashes so infrequently that I'm having trouble pinning down exactly what goes wrong when it does. I may roll back to a slower version just to be safe.
Because it doesn't need to be faster. Points are worthless: they cannot be spent or exchanged or traded. It doesn't matter if you get the points now or in a week. You still got the points, right? Why do you need to know IMMEDIATELY what your new points total is?
Adding a live points readout is not something the devs should even bother with. It's completely useless and would only take time away from the already huge list of things they're working very hard on.
I know it makes me sound old, but jesus christ can't you guys go an hour without instant gratification? Have you never had to wait for anything in your life?
@PlanesOfOld Yes I think that's actually correct. For every internet point you have, you are actually -.2€ in debt.
TAKE THAT, EUROPE.
@PlanesOfOld One sec, let me check.
Yeah it's still exactly £0.
User scores are literally a popularity contest. The upvote system makes it that way, just like reddit. And just like on reddit, the number of upvotes does not necessarily determine the quality of the submission, only its popularity.
And there are a couple ways to become popular. One of them is by building good aircraft and hoping they get noticed. Another is by being very active in the community and making friends. Most of the top users do a little of both. Many of the "undiscovered" users are not making an effort in the social aspect of this community. It works the other way, too. A lot of the high-point users who aren't great at building have made friends with a bunch of people who will upvote their submissions.
We tried a 5-star system. It was abused horribly by the majority of users, who chose to ignore the merit-based ratings. Rating anything less than 5 stars got people really pissed off at you, even if you left an explanation. People would also use low ratings as revenge against users they didn't like, or who gave them sub 5-star ratings.
Not all of the users with the most points will make the best aircraft. It's just inherent to the system. But remember, the current exchange rate for Internet Points to USD is holding at a very stable $0.00.
@BRuthless even with the new rule, I suspect that this tournament will follow the others in that the winner will not be the fastest plane.
I've been eliminated by crashing in 3/4 of the tournaments so far, so I'm developing my entry with consistency as the top priority. Speed is still important, of course, but for me anything that's not finishing at 100% is unacceptable.
Is your username a reference to the band?
YESSSSSSSSS PERFECT SOLUTION.
Hey, this is definitely using parts from My Chinook. I like what you've done with it, but please do not circumvent the Successor system, and at least give me credit.
@TheLatentImage MFW
@TheLatentImage Wait that's seriously not a picture of Jeff Bridges?
@nathanmikeska Good to know, thank you very much!
NOPE, that's top secret. I can tell you that my glider hits 400mph at the bottom of the hill though. :D
That was really cool!
@RyneKuczy Don't worry, the touristy parts of DC are some of the safest places in America. The national mall, the monuments, the museums and all the big federal buildings are all heavily watched and guarded. Nobody is going to be mugging school kids at the Smithsonian in broad daylight.
If you can, check out the Air & Space museum. Most of the bigger planes (like the SR-71, the Enola Gay, the Concorde, and the Space Shuttle Discovery) are out at the Udvar-Hazy center, but the main Air & Space Museum in DC still has lots of planes including the Bell X-1, the Spirit of St. Louis, the Wright Flyer, and a bunch of the early spaceflight projects.
Natural History is an awesome museum too.
@Pauciloquent Fun fact: this plane only crossed the finish line twice, in its very first match. Every other opponent crashed.
@EvilGenius Thank you!
This plane has 2 VTOL engines and a 1x1x5 fuselage block all stacked on top of each other. The cockpit is the smallest cockpit block available, and it is also nudged into the main trunk of the aircraft.
The wings are all double-stacked to reduce wing loading, and the VTOL thruster is embedded into the fuselage as well. The CoM, CoL and CoT are balanced to within .001 on the vertical axis, and the fuel tank is perfectly balanced on the CoM so that the CoM does not move as the plane consumes fuel.
The plane carries barely enough fuel to complete the Daredevil course, crossing the finish line with 4% in the tank. The tail surfaces are set to semi-symmetric airfoil shape to cancel out the nose-up tendency from the main wings and keep the plane level and stable at high speeds.
It looks simple and only contains 17 parts, but there's quite a lot of thought that goes into the design.
This is my war music. \m/
@KingDeadshot I've had my logo removed from a couple copies. I've also tried to use XML comments to 'tag' the aircraft in a hidden way, but the upload system seems to strip the comments out of the XML code, unfortunately.
It's true. The only way it was possible to have an external engine work was to have it connected by a detacher bound to group 8, which was automatically detached as soon as the race started. Andrew has fixed that glitch by turning off Group 8 auto-activation.
Any aircraft designed to detach their engines will now remain attached, and any blocks which are not attached to the main body of the aircraft (like debris fields intended to wreck the opponent, or external, non-connected engines) will not even be loaded into the game.
I know that part of the fun of building a racer is trying to push the limits of the rules to gain an advantage, but the rules are in place to keep things as fair and as close as possible. External VTOL engines were both unrealistic and unfair. You're just going to have to find a way to make a legit plane fly the course well.
@Thefalloutplayr Did you catch the update from Andrew?
They have eliminated the external VTOL engine glitch. Which is good, because it was completely unfair.
@SteadfastContracting That's impressively slow. But actually, with the number of crashes that I'm sure we'll see, a slow-but-steady plane probably has a decent chance to make it to the semifinals.
@Baldovino There's also the issue of the "opponent" position still starting about 5 feet above the ground, which makes this a very difficult race to test.
My plane is near 100% completion as the primary, but something about the way it bounces in the opponent position throws it off completely and it crashes about 75% of the time. It's unfortunate because each plane will either be Primary or Opponent twice, but there's no way to know which. Also since the dev version that runs the tournaments is slightly different, it's sort of impossible to tune a plane to be 100% reliable in the Opponent position.
@SpiritusRaptor @Baldovino This isn't confirmed, but from looking at the scripts that control it, I'm pretty sure that the AI "learns" in a way, but only saves the data until you load another plane. In the tournaments, I believe the plane is re-downloaded between every match, erasing the "learned" information and giving both planes a fresh start, essentially.
If a plane wrecks the first time on your system and you restart without exiting the level, its behavior is not necessarily what you'll see in the tournament.
FPS is also key. The AI can only made a decision once per frame. I had to lower my settings because I was getting FPS drops just before some of the rings, and the stutter was causing strange decisions resulting in mostly nosedives. If you're seeing different behavior with the same plane it may be FPS-related.
@XVIindustries I'm aware of what knighthood is, I meant the "Monarchy" as in the entire UK. It was a joke.
@XVIindustries I RECOGNIZE NO MONARCHY. USA! USA! USA! /s
Damn dude, you even got the Fraktur script looking good. Well done.
OH THE HUMANITY
I think you mean Winston Churchill.
@Seraphinium The 'missed ring' bug is fixed in the version of SimplePlanes that they have been using for the tournaments. If you're sure you are making the rings, don't worry about it. :)
No weapons? Darn, so much for my nefarious plan.