@F8boa i am 90% sure I already know how to achieve what ur telling me with funky trees alone, however i am just busy with other projects right now but the idea is now on my radar and I will give it a shot one day.
@F8boa if the default missile is directly attached to the missile shell and is then separated from the main flight computer/cockpit, then the flight properties would completely depend on the default missiles flight properties and would then be completely independent of the little engine, fins, drag, etc, which would then defeat the entire point of FT missiles.
@F8boa The problem with that is that the AI will fire at the first chance they get without properly lining up the missile, waiting for the target to be in range, and etc. However, with proper activation parameters to the missile, it is not impossible to program the AI to only be allowed to fire the missile when it is determined that the missile can hit its target.
I may investigate in this concept and release AI versions of these planes. However these missiles would be virtually impossible to dodge since they are usually highly maneuverable and impervious to countermeasures.
@MagmaBlaster69 I believe if you just select the weapon by taping on it's name in the menu, even though it will say it's unavailable, it should still select it and you would then be able to fire it.
@OrderlyHippo Very very interesting concept you had. Custom weapons are already far and few between and funky trees weapons are even rarer, I am glad to see that others share my interest too. It seems that your design was limited by the fact that you tried to use the in game default weapons as shells or frames instead of developing a new one from scratch. I think if you did that it would have been more easily controllable and allow you to do far more with your design.
@Quizels06 Ya about that
It a lil bit of a process but i've simplified it as best i could but here are all the steps if you rly want to try it yourself
1. Go inside the bomb and find the flight computer, copy down all the variable names, and then delete the flight computer
2. Go into the variables menu, copy paste the following variable onto like a google doc or whatever: B1F1Con, B1RStab, B1F2Con, TLat, TLong, TAlt, MTD1, MTH1, MTE1, B1TTG, PControl1, YControl1, LaunchAuth, B1Launch, LH1, LA1, LT1
3. Under the last three variables, LH1, LA1, LT1, there are also codes for priorities; you also need to copy that
4. You can now take the centerline mounted bomb with it's detacher and save it as sub assembly and put it on your plane
5. Re-copy all of the variables into the variables menu, Including the priorities for the last three variable!
6. Put a flight computer somewhere on the bomb (make sure it is oriented the right way) and rename all of the variable outputs to what you have copied down from the original build
7. After all that it should work
@SuperSuperTheSylph Good work on the missile, however I have a couple feedback based on my own experience with FT missile
1. The symmetrical airfoil wings stall past 13 degrees of aoa, so there's usually no point in deflecting the fins past like 10 degrees; this will almost always give you the best maneuverability
2. The guidance is very rudimentary and tbh very inaccurate. I would recommend you to look into the kinematic equation in radial coordinates, aka what automatic turrets also use for lead/aim. If you want to take it one step further, I recommend you to look up proportional guidance in the context of missile guidance design.
That being said, this is a big step for you and I remember taking steps like these 2 years ago.
@Quercon and yes i have considered using coordinate transfers but those are extremely tedious to code and is simply not worth it for this type of build. Perhaps it would be worth it for future ballistic missile builds though.
@Quercon PID is a very simple and flexible tool and how to calibrate it depends on your understanding of what the I and D term does. The I term is used if you have consistent undershoot that can not be corrected with P over time, and D is used for dampening oscillations and preventing overshoots. What i used in this missile specifically is called proportional guidance, and it guides by controlling the angular acceleration of the missile , and so it oscillates a lot, thus i have a D term. Feel free to go into the code and mess with it to see what i’m talking abt.
@llDeadboyll It depends but generally, there's always a way around it. Although it is always better to take the extra time to cover all of your bases.
If it is a conventional plane then an autopilot can totally ignore angle of attack/slip values. If it is something PSM capable (intentional or not) then you definitely need to take care of AOA and make sure you don't stall yourself when you don't want to.
@llDeadboyll Assuming you are asking me if it is possible to make a missile autopilot without taking into account of Angle Of Attack and Angle Of Slip; Yes, I do it without those values all the time, especially for multi-firing or aircraft mounted missiles since a flight computer that's not set as the primary cockpit does not return values of angle of attack/slip and calculating them is a hassle and adds more variables that you have to transfer and more points for failure/inconsistency.
Looking back I also realized that the game seems to already take into account the wetted area of objects when it spits you the drag value, since in all my testing, even with different geometries, the value of 0.0010145 was consistent.
Thus the in game drag value is not the drag coefficient, rather the Drag coefficient times wetted area. The proper drag force experienced by your aircraft can still be calculated with the original equation in post.
@ThomasRoderick mk i thought abt it a little more
You are right in that the Drag is proportional to wetted area. Then the parasite drag force felt by the whole aircraft equation should be
‘D=ACd0.5rhov^2’
You are also right in the Cd is indeed dimensionless, so units on both side of the question must cancel out. The only way that would happen is if the equation is arranged as above (Force cancels Force, remember that the right side of the equation is basically dynamic pressure times area = force)
@ThomasRoderick The Coefficient of drag is indeed proportional to the wetted area of the plane. D in my equation is the drag Force felt by the airplane, which increases with airspeed
@Graingy
1. Drag coefficient is a non-dimensionalized coefficient to measure and compare drag. Aka it is independent of speed/altitude and thus u can directly compare this value between planes and designs
2. To my knowledge air density is modeled using an ideal standard day scenario and yes it decreases as u get higher in altitude
3. Yes air density affects jet engine performance heavily in simpleplanes. However I am not sure about how it affects prop engines.
4. Yes u would multiply the drag scale of the wing.
5. I don’t know what kind of scale would be realistic for the wing just yet cause i haven’t tested that. In addition drag produced by the wing IRL is heavily dependent on it’s shape and may differ wildly even at the same surface area.
6. Yes u can search it up in reference to an existing aircraft. You would want to search up Parasite drag coefficient and the symbol you should be looking for is Cd0. Then use the formula/relations above to find the in game drag value u should be shooting for.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I am very aware of the difficulties of using the targeting computer on mobile, specifically that the knobs are really hard to grab hold of. I do not have a solution for this other than to recommend you to play it on PC. This will be accounted for for my next project. I apologize for the inconvenience.
I sincerely appreciate all of your support despite the technical difficulties.
@llDeadboyll I suppose it was from a lack of understanding of how Ballistic missiles work and my general bias against anything to do with space at the time. I’ve since read some technical books and grew an interest in Ballistic Missiles, so I started to learn how they work and I started to tinker… and here we are 3 months later
Hi @kismit, I love the funky trees implementations on this build and I think we may have a great collaboration opportunity with my funky trees weapon skills. I'd be happy to provide you with my weapons or build them for you to use on future versions of this plane. Let me know what you think!
@llDeadboyll mayhapes. There will certainly be tweaks that needs to be made but i see no reason why it should not work if u implement it properly. If u want me to help u further message me on discord.
@Ashdenpaw1 Not to my knowledge. The RIM-116 had to use rolling motion because of it's 1D passive radio wave seeker, used alongside it's IR seeker to better negate the effect of the sea deflecting IR signals. That said, this type of seeker probably does not provide too much benefits in an Air-To-Air use and thus rolling the missile is not required.
@OkaNieba It essentially is XD
+1@RicardoACE BTW would you mind if I steal this Aim9 model and make it into an actual FT guided missile?
+1It seems the Aim9-H was planned to be a funky trees guided missile, what happened to it?
Also nice to see my RWR on a build
+1@AshdenpawTG22 Yes; all ships move at 8 m/s if undisturbed.
+1@TheCommentaryGuy I normally use magnets but yes i can in the future
+1@Yish42 Trigonometry and Label magic
+1@F8boa i am 90% sure I already know how to achieve what ur telling me with funky trees alone, however i am just busy with other projects right now but the idea is now on my radar and I will give it a shot one day.
+1@F8boa if the default missile is directly attached to the missile shell and is then separated from the main flight computer/cockpit, then the flight properties would completely depend on the default missiles flight properties and would then be completely independent of the little engine, fins, drag, etc, which would then defeat the entire point of FT missiles.
+1@F8boa The problem with that is that the AI will fire at the first chance they get without properly lining up the missile, waiting for the target to be in range, and etc. However, with proper activation parameters to the missile, it is not impossible to program the AI to only be allowed to fire the missile when it is determined that the missile can hit its target.
I may investigate in this concept and release AI versions of these planes. However these missiles would be virtually impossible to dodge since they are usually highly maneuverable and impervious to countermeasures.
+1@MagmaBlaster69 I believe if you just select the weapon by taping on it's name in the menu, even though it will say it's unavailable, it should still select it and you would then be able to fire it.
+1@Bezdadsds interesting idea...
+1@SomeSPGuyWhoLikesLore magic
+1@Dracul0Anderson Reach out to me on discord, user is kuatta4
+1@OrderlyHippo Very very interesting concept you had. Custom weapons are already far and few between and funky trees weapons are even rarer, I am glad to see that others share my interest too. It seems that your design was limited by the fact that you tried to use the in game default weapons as shells or frames instead of developing a new one from scratch. I think if you did that it would have been more easily controllable and allow you to do far more with your design.
+1@Quizels06 Ya about that
+1It a lil bit of a process but i've simplified it as best i could but here are all the steps if you rly want to try it yourself
1. Go inside the bomb and find the flight computer, copy down all the variable names, and then delete the flight computer
2. Go into the variables menu, copy paste the following variable onto like a google doc or whatever: B1F1Con, B1RStab, B1F2Con, TLat, TLong, TAlt, MTD1, MTH1, MTE1, B1TTG, PControl1, YControl1, LaunchAuth, B1Launch, LH1, LA1, LT1
3. Under the last three variables, LH1, LA1, LT1, there are also codes for priorities; you also need to copy that
4. You can now take the centerline mounted bomb with it's detacher and save it as sub assembly and put it on your plane
5. Re-copy all of the variables into the variables menu, Including the priorities for the last three variable!
6. Put a flight computer somewhere on the bomb (make sure it is oriented the right way) and rename all of the variable outputs to what you have copied down from the original build
7. After all that it should work
i'm using this to cheat my online exam
+1Mobil version coming up
+1@RicardoACE you have a discord?
@SuperSuperTheSylph Good work on the missile, however I have a couple feedback based on my own experience with FT missile
1. The symmetrical airfoil wings stall past 13 degrees of aoa, so there's usually no point in deflecting the fins past like 10 degrees; this will almost always give you the best maneuverability
2. The guidance is very rudimentary and tbh very inaccurate. I would recommend you to look into the kinematic equation in radial coordinates, aka what automatic turrets also use for lead/aim. If you want to take it one step further, I recommend you to look up proportional guidance in the context of missile guidance design.
That being said, this is a big step for you and I remember taking steps like these 2 years ago.
@Unitedareospace21 Ok what do u need it to do
@Unitedareospace21 Alright what would u like help with on it
@Quercon and yes i have considered using coordinate transfers but those are extremely tedious to code and is simply not worth it for this type of build. Perhaps it would be worth it for future ballistic missile builds though.
@Quercon PID is a very simple and flexible tool and how to calibrate it depends on your understanding of what the I and D term does. The I term is used if you have consistent undershoot that can not be corrected with P over time, and D is used for dampening oscillations and preventing overshoots. What i used in this missile specifically is called proportional guidance, and it guides by controlling the angular acceleration of the missile , and so it oscillates a lot, thus i have a D term. Feel free to go into the code and mess with it to see what i’m talking abt.
@Monarchii Very nice flying heli. Would I have permission to turn this into another AI Heli?
@Unitedareospace21 Upload whatever you are trying to work on as unlisted and gimme the link. We can talk in the comments there.
@Unitedareospace21 Yes. Reach out to me on discord @kuatta4
@Unitedareospace21 What specifically would you like help on?
@llDeadboyll It depends but generally, there's always a way around it. Although it is always better to take the extra time to cover all of your bases.
If it is a conventional plane then an autopilot can totally ignore angle of attack/slip values. If it is something PSM capable (intentional or not) then you definitely need to take care of AOA and make sure you don't stall yourself when you don't want to.
@llDeadboyll Assuming you are asking me if it is possible to make a missile autopilot without taking into account of Angle Of Attack and Angle Of Slip; Yes, I do it without those values all the time, especially for multi-firing or aircraft mounted missiles since a flight computer that's not set as the primary cockpit does not return values of angle of attack/slip and calculating them is a hassle and adds more variables that you have to transfer and more points for failure/inconsistency.
@KmanSP Surface to Air Missile
@Monarchii Where is it?
Looking back I also realized that the game seems to already take into account the wetted area of objects when it spits you the drag value, since in all my testing, even with different geometries, the value of 0.0010145 was consistent.
Thus the in game drag value is not the drag coefficient, rather the Drag coefficient times wetted area. The proper drag force experienced by your aircraft can still be calculated with the original equation in post.
@ThomasRoderick mk i thought abt it a little more
You are right in that the Drag is proportional to wetted area. Then the parasite drag force felt by the whole aircraft equation should be
‘D=ACd0.5rhov^2’
You are also right in the Cd is indeed dimensionless, so units on both side of the question must cancel out. The only way that would happen is if the equation is arranged as above (Force cancels Force, remember that the right side of the equation is basically dynamic pressure times area = force)
@ThomasRoderick The Coefficient of drag is indeed proportional to the wetted area of the plane. D in my equation is the drag Force felt by the airplane, which increases with airspeed
@Graingy
1. Drag coefficient is a non-dimensionalized coefficient to measure and compare drag. Aka it is independent of speed/altitude and thus u can directly compare this value between planes and designs
2. To my knowledge air density is modeled using an ideal standard day scenario and yes it decreases as u get higher in altitude
3. Yes air density affects jet engine performance heavily in simpleplanes. However I am not sure about how it affects prop engines.
4. Yes u would multiply the drag scale of the wing.
5. I don’t know what kind of scale would be realistic for the wing just yet cause i haven’t tested that. In addition drag produced by the wing IRL is heavily dependent on it’s shape and may differ wildly even at the same surface area.
6. Yes u can search it up in reference to an existing aircraft. You would want to search up Parasite drag coefficient and the symbol you should be looking for is Cd0. Then use the formula/relations above to find the in game drag value u should be shooting for.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I am very aware of the difficulties of using the targeting computer on mobile, specifically that the knobs are really hard to grab hold of. I do not have a solution for this other than to recommend you to play it on PC. This will be accounted for for my next project. I apologize for the inconvenience.
I sincerely appreciate all of your support despite the technical difficulties.
@llDeadboyll I suppose it was from a lack of understanding of how Ballistic missiles work and my general bias against anything to do with space at the time. I’ve since read some technical books and grew an interest in Ballistic Missiles, so I started to learn how they work and I started to tinker… and here we are 3 months later
@VRCaPable no
@Freedomfans can you guys not just drag the knob left and right? That's how you do it on PC
@Petropavlovsk101 As far as I know it works anywhere
@LTHank Drag the knob left and right
@MizeaO It may be more accurate if you set the Altitude to 0, but again I promised no type of precision accuracy to strike ships.
@llDeadboyll my discord is kuatta4
@Sableric Absolutly, I'd love to help and teach what I've learned. Dm me on Discord kuatta4
Hi @kismit, I love the funky trees implementations on this build and I think we may have a great collaboration opportunity with my funky trees weapon skills. I'd be happy to provide you with my weapons or build them for you to use on future versions of this plane. Let me know what you think!
Hey @Monarchii , would you be interested in helping me finish a mech project, since you clearly know how to build a mech better than myself?
T
@llDeadboyll mayhapes. There will certainly be tweaks that needs to be made but i see no reason why it should not work if u implement it properly. If u want me to help u further message me on discord.
@Lee77100 very much so. Try it out yourself!
@Ashdenpaw1 Not to my knowledge. The RIM-116 had to use rolling motion because of it's 1D passive radio wave seeker, used alongside it's IR seeker to better negate the effect of the sea deflecting IR signals. That said, this type of seeker probably does not provide too much benefits in an Air-To-Air use and thus rolling the missile is not required.