BTW, the reason why it didn't fly before was because the center of mass (the red ball that show up with you hit the space bar during the build process) was too close to the center of lift (the blue ball), which makes it unstable and want to pitch up nose over tail. This is compounded with the plane being tail heavy which makes it want to pitch up.
You kinda want to look at a airplane as a seesaw. Roughly speaking, you want to balance the plane on the center of lift (blue ball) and put the center of mass (red ball) about one half to one ball length ahead of it. That way the forces of weight and lift mostly balance out. That's not set is stone and there are ways to get around this, but it's a good rule to start off with.
I "fixed" (well partially fixed) this by replace your nosecone with a a couple of pieces of fuselage and which I could add weight to. This shifted the center of mass forward enough that it flies, but it still is a bit tail heavy.
Other ways you can improve on this this would be to somehow reduce the weight in the tail section, moving the wings further back, or angle the horizontal stabilizers of the tail upwards to create a force to push the tail section up.
@PPLLAANNEE I wish someone would do a tutorial on just how to embed the custom images into SP. I've tired a few different ways and nothing seems to work, and I'm stuck with the three standard screenshots.
@that1devil
Do what you like. If you don't like designing and building stuff (and there are times where I hate doing it-"Why's it banking to the left?!!") then don't do it as much and play more. You bought the game to have fun, so do whatever you enjoy.
Whatever you do, don't play the game just for rating points or you'll always be dependent on other players for your enjoyment of the game.
@IndoMaja When I downloaded it I removed the fuel from the tail and scaled the mass down for the tail section a bit until the CoM moved a bit ahead of the CoL.
The problem is that the Center of Mass (the red line) is too close to the Center of Lift (the blue line).
If you reduce the weight in the back of the airplane and/or increase the weight in the front of the aircraft it will take off properly without flipping.
@gigachad The first ones were odd, as were every other one. The rest were even! ;)
Seriously though, the early versions of practically everything seems odd because the designers are focused on getting the thing to work, and optimizing the design happens much later. Typically the design sort of stabilizes into what become well known forms, but...the process doesn't really end. Aircraft are still relatively young forms of transport (120 years), and it's quite possible that the designs we think of as normal today will be horrible archaic a century or two from now. Just look at how ships have changed over the last 500 years. Maybe in the future, autogryos will become ring shaped with the rotor in the middle, a cockpit at the front, and engine and tail at the back?
@WinsWings
I get your point too. A true autogyro needs to by able to fly with the many rotor unpowered and many so-called autogyros posted on SP don't do that.
The problem seems to be that the center of lift is too far back and the tail is too big for the main wing. Try increasing the wingspan to about 24 feet (7.3m) or so, and maybe reduce the tail a little.
Since this looks to be a combat airplane, you also might want to consider adding some elevators to the main wing to give it bit more pitch control (the forward wing lifts up while the tail pushes down) to assist in it's climbs and dives.
@FirstFish83828
If you want I could take out the pre-rotator. It doesn't really help much on this build. During testing I mostly just did AG1 and full throttle and waited until I hit 47 mph and took off.
@FirstFish83828
Sure it does. Once you got the rotors up to speed you hit AG2 again to disengage the clutch and the pre-rotator turns off. You can test this out on the ground.
Basically the propeller and the rotors are never powered at the same time.
@FirstFish83828
No, it's a pre-rotator. Many, if not most autogyros use the power of the engine to pre-spin the rotor blades before take off to shorten the takeoff run.
For example, check this out youtube video at about the 2:50 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu_y0angRqY
You can take off and fly this without turning on the pre-rotator. Just start off with AG1 and throttle and it should take off at around 47 MPH.
@mlksback You might be able to get away with one or two degrees. It probably won't completely stabilize the airplane (It didn't when I tried it), but it might be enough to work with some other method.
If it makes you feel better you're not really cheating by adding other stabilization. Simpleplane physics are not quite the same as real world physics and often we have to tweak a few things in game to get them to work like the real thing.
@BlackGearCompany
It really depends on what you are trying to do with it. Some things are easier, others not so much but you get better at them as you use them again and again. It can also be frusting when something that looks like it should work doesn't, and you have to look it over ans figure out what you did wrong.
It;s not all or nothing though. I suggest that you try out one or two features at first to see how it all works and then add more things as you get more conformable with it. It really helps if you got something you are trying to do and work to figure how to do it rather than just do random stuff.
@Kevvelry
No problem, we've all been there. . It's frustrating when something doesn't work and you can't figure out why. I'm still learning new things about how Simpleplanes works.
The shaking is usually caused by the forces/stresses on the aircraft being greater than what the wings can handle. Some ways to deal with the problem are:
1) Don't go fast at low altitude: Since the forces on the airplane depend on the air density, and density drops at altitude, the greater the altitude the faster a plane can go before it breaks apart.
2) Use structural wings instead of normal wings. They are stronger and can take a bit more stress before shaking. This will require editing the wings in overlord to have control surfaces.
3) You can reinforce the wings somewhat by embedding them partially into the fuselage and/or by adding fuselage supports or wing coverings. The extra fuselage can take up some of the stress that would otherwise affect the wing.
4) You can try editing the wings drag. Lower drag should reduce the stresses on the wing.
@edensk Perfect! Not only does that work, but the ability to alter the pitch was already built in, so I didn't have to change anything to get it to work. Thanks.
6000 mph at 70000 feet would be a Mach 9 cruiser! The speed of sound varies with altitude. At 70,000 feet, Mach 1 is 660 mph. It handles very nice at 150,000 feet up.
Very Impressive. It can even fly on only one of it's three engines, which would be really nice for anyone trying to get home in a damaged plane. No doubt about it, you need to see more Cutangus!
Not a bad first glider.In fact it's better than you think. "Primary Wings" tend to start with fuel in them, as most designs would want that. But you don't want that for a glider, and all that fuel is adding over 1000 pounds to the weight. Your plane glides a lot better without it.
@spefyjerbf Thanks, you solved both of my autogyro prerotator problems with your example! Now I can prerotate the blades without torque, and get the prerotator to automatically disengage when I start the actual engine.
@BlackThuNDR
If you do make it scout craft then you will probably need to add more weight back. I'd suggest scale the pilot's torso back to x1 and add 150 lbs. for Commander Bond.
BTW, Pity you don't need a sea attack craft. It would be a killer with some mini-torpedoes, and air-to-ground missiles instead of the air-to-air ones. It can use ground effect to skim at sea level and launch tiorps.
The primary problem is that you have 236 gallons of fuel in each wing. 472 gallons weights approximately 2832 pounds, and that is about half your weight of the aircraft..
The second problem is that you have 500 pounds of dead weight in the nose of your airplane making it nose heavy.
I reduced the fuel, took out the dead weight, and even changed the main wings to flat-bottom for extra lift. It can now fly level, but you still need to add quite a bit of trim to do so. BTW, trim controls are 1/4/7 on they keypad.
Here is the modified version, hope it helps: http://www.simpleplanes.com/a/4TNFUJ/Bannafire109s-Prop-Plane
I spent ten minutes just playing with the landing gear, then I got to the weapon pods. Everything got some special pop out or fold out option. It's like it was built by Q Branch. Really cool.
@Nerfaddict It works in a fashion similar to other rotator-engine aircraft. A rotator set to be able to make multiple complete revolutions spins around very quickly. Sections of wing, usually scaled down to increase efficiency, are attached to this, and function like a propeller, providing lift and thrust.
The really clever bits here are how the throttle can be variable and that the rotatory doesn't need to reverse rotate back to zero when the throttle is cut.
Okay
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/8oAg2E/Player-7961s-aircraft
Hi, welcome to simpleplanes.
BTW, the reason why it didn't fly before was because the center of mass (the red ball that show up with you hit the space bar during the build process) was too close to the center of lift (the blue ball), which makes it unstable and want to pitch up nose over tail. This is compounded with the plane being tail heavy which makes it want to pitch up.
You kinda want to look at a airplane as a seesaw. Roughly speaking, you want to balance the plane on the center of lift (blue ball) and put the center of mass (red ball) about one half to one ball length ahead of it. That way the forces of weight and lift mostly balance out. That's not set is stone and there are ways to get around this, but it's a good rule to start off with.
I "fixed" (well partially fixed) this by replace your nosecone with a a couple of pieces of fuselage and which I could add weight to. This shifted the center of mass forward enough that it flies, but it still is a bit tail heavy.
Other ways you can improve on this this would be to somehow reduce the weight in the tail section, moving the wings further back, or angle the horizontal stabilizers of the tail upwards to create a force to push the tail section up.
Hope that helped.
An actual autogyro. Not bad for an early build.
@LonelySea22
LOL! I'll send you a link to my current build. It's still a work in progress but it flies.
@LonelySea22
Glad you like it. BTW does "Little Nellie" ring a bell?
@KornAerospace
I know. SAAB 29.
@KornAerospace
That's exactly what I thought when I saw the US one in white.
Nice autogyro
@PPLLAANNEE I wish someone would do a tutorial on just how to embed the custom images into SP. I've tired a few different ways and nothing seems to work, and I'm stuck with the three standard screenshots.
@that1devil
Do what you like. If you don't like designing and building stuff (and there are times where I hate doing it-"Why's it banking to the left?!!") then don't do it as much and play more. You bought the game to have fun, so do whatever you enjoy.
Whatever you do, don't play the game just for rating points or you'll always be dependent on other players for your enjoyment of the game.
@IndoMaja When I downloaded it I removed the fuel from the tail and scaled the mass down for the tail section a bit until the CoM moved a bit ahead of the CoL.
The problem is that the Center of Mass (the red line) is too close to the Center of Lift (the blue line).
If you reduce the weight in the back of the airplane and/or increase the weight in the front of the aircraft it will take off properly without flipping.
This is a very nice engine. I hope you get more credit for your work.
Wow, it flies really well, especially for a plane that flies backwards and upside down :)
Nice seaplane.
@Sympathetic
Is this any better?
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/dES0Y3/lego-fighter
@WinsWings Thanks, but suspect it will be a bit of a disappointment. Others have built much better "flappers".
@WinsWings Ooh, I like this one. Have you considered giving it four rotors?
@gigachad The first ones were odd, as were every other one. The rest were even! ;)
Seriously though, the early versions of practically everything seems odd because the designers are focused on getting the thing to work, and optimizing the design happens much later. Typically the design sort of stabilizes into what become well known forms, but...the process doesn't really end. Aircraft are still relatively young forms of transport (120 years), and it's quite possible that the designs we think of as normal today will be horrible archaic a century or two from now. Just look at how ships have changed over the last 500 years. Maybe in the future, autogryos will become ring shaped with the rotor in the middle, a cockpit at the front, and engine and tail at the back?
@FirstLandFish83828
Urgent care? Sorry to hear that. Get well, the aircraft can wait.
@WinsWings
I get your point too. A true autogyro needs to by able to fly with the many rotor unpowered and many so-called autogyros posted on SP don't do that.
@FirstFish83828
Fair enough. It's just that I doubt you're going to get more entries. No love for autogryos. :(
@FirstFish83828
With only 3 entries maybe you should extend the deadline, and maybe lift the one entry per person limit? Not a lot of people build autogryos here.
The problem seems to be that the center of lift is too far back and the tail is too big for the main wing. Try increasing the wingspan to about 24 feet (7.3m) or so, and maybe reduce the tail a little.
Since this looks to be a combat airplane, you also might want to consider adding some elevators to the main wing to give it bit more pitch control (the forward wing lifts up while the tail pushes down) to assist in it's climbs and dives.
@FirstFish83828
If you want I could take out the pre-rotator. It doesn't really help much on this build. During testing I mostly just did AG1 and full throttle and waited until I hit 47 mph and took off.
@FirstFish83828
Sure it does. Once you got the rotors up to speed you hit AG2 again to disengage the clutch and the pre-rotator turns off. You can test this out on the ground.
Basically the propeller and the rotors are never powered at the same time.
@FirstFish83828
No, it's a pre-rotator. Many, if not most autogyros use the power of the engine to pre-spin the rotor blades before take off to shorten the takeoff run.
For example, check this out youtube video at about the 2:50 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu_y0angRqY
You can take off and fly this without turning on the pre-rotator. Just start off with AG1 and throttle and it should take off at around 47 MPH.
@mlksback You might be able to get away with one or two degrees. It probably won't completely stabilize the airplane (It didn't when I tried it), but it might be enough to work with some other method.
If it makes you feel better you're not really cheating by adding other stabilization. Simpleplane physics are not quite the same as real world physics and often we have to tweak a few things in game to get them to work like the real thing.
@BlackGearCompany
It really depends on what you are trying to do with it. Some things are easier, others not so much but you get better at them as you use them again and again. It can also be frusting when something that looks like it should work doesn't, and you have to look it over ans figure out what you did wrong.
It;s not all or nothing though. I suggest that you try out one or two features at first to see how it all works and then add more things as you get more conformable with it. It really helps if you got something you are trying to do and work to figure how to do it rather than just do random stuff.
This is fun to fly
Nice seagyro!
This made my day!
Nice. It's a shame that most people won't be familiar with the show, or you'd get more credit.
@Kevvelry
No problem, we've all been there. . It's frustrating when something doesn't work and you can't figure out why. I'm still learning new things about how Simpleplanes works.
The shaking is usually caused by the forces/stresses on the aircraft being greater than what the wings can handle. Some ways to deal with the problem are:
1) Don't go fast at low altitude: Since the forces on the airplane depend on the air density, and density drops at altitude, the greater the altitude the faster a plane can go before it breaks apart.
2) Use structural wings instead of normal wings. They are stronger and can take a bit more stress before shaking. This will require editing the wings in overlord to have control surfaces.
3) You can reinforce the wings somewhat by embedding them partially into the fuselage and/or by adding fuselage supports or wing coverings. The extra fuselage can take up some of the stress that would otherwise affect the wing.
4) You can try editing the wings drag. Lower drag should reduce the stresses on the wing.
Good Luck
It is pretty cool.
This looks so cool in flight.
This is really clever, and deserves more upvotes.
@edensk Perfect! Not only does that work, but the ability to alter the pitch was already built in, so I didn't have to change anything to get it to work. Thanks.
6000 mph at 70000 feet would be a Mach 9 cruiser! The speed of sound varies with altitude. At 70,000 feet, Mach 1 is 660 mph. It handles very nice at 150,000 feet up.
Very Impressive. It can even fly on only one of it's three engines, which would be really nice for anyone trying to get home in a damaged plane. No doubt about it, you need to see more Cutangus!
Not a bad first glider.In fact it's better than you think. "Primary Wings" tend to start with fuel in them, as most designs would want that. But you don't want that for a glider, and all that fuel is adding over 1000 pounds to the weight. Your plane glides a lot better without it.
@spefyjerbf Thanks, you solved both of my autogyro prerotator problems with your example! Now I can prerotate the blades without torque, and get the prerotator to automatically disengage when I start the actual engine.
Good plane.That 150mm cannon is nasty!
@BlackThuNDR
If you do make it scout craft then you will probably need to add more weight back. I'd suggest scale the pilot's torso back to x1 and add 150 lbs. for Commander Bond.
BTW, Pity you don't need a sea attack craft. It would be a killer with some mini-torpedoes, and air-to-ground missiles instead of the air-to-air ones. It can use ground effect to skim at sea level and launch tiorps.
The primary problem is that you have 236 gallons of fuel in each wing. 472 gallons weights approximately 2832 pounds, and that is about half your weight of the aircraft..
The second problem is that you have 500 pounds of dead weight in the nose of your airplane making it nose heavy.
I reduced the fuel, took out the dead weight, and even changed the main wings to flat-bottom for extra lift. It can now fly level, but you still need to add quite a bit of trim to do so. BTW, trim controls are 1/4/7 on they keypad.
Here is the modified version, hope it helps: http://www.simpleplanes.com/a/4TNFUJ/Bannafire109s-Prop-Plane
I spent ten minutes just playing with the landing gear, then I got to the weapon pods. Everything got some special pop out or fold out option. It's like it was built by Q Branch. Really cool.
@Nerfaddict It works in a fashion similar to other rotator-engine aircraft. A rotator set to be able to make multiple complete revolutions spins around very quickly. Sections of wing, usually scaled down to increase efficiency, are attached to this, and function like a propeller, providing lift and thrust.
The really clever bits here are how the throttle can be variable and that the rotatory doesn't need to reverse rotate back to zero when the throttle is cut.
This looks really good. What did you use for the nuke? It took out the Beast and the escorts!
I'd give it two upvotes if I could. It's ones of the best,and intuitive "flapper" designs yet.