@MrSilverWolf @JangoTheMango @Strikefighter04
Update. It has reached 1520 parts as of 2 minutes ago. I’m going to actually stop soon tho. Despite having a very powerful pc, I can see it starting to lag within the next 300 parts. I’m estimating 2000 parts upon completion.
@ChiChiWerx Indeed interesting. I am well aware of the design flaws of the Tupolev Tu-144, although not a BAS - but enough for us both to come into the conclusion that the Tupolev is indeed flawed in many ways that may well influence the incidence at the paris airshow. However, the source, PBS - a well-trusted source that covered the incident provided evidence, and I am simply using that to support the opinion.
I try to keep an open minded approach to incidents like this and see the reasoning of both sides of the argument. Thanks for sharing the information.
With an engine placement like that, I think it would be wise to move the wings further back. The mass from the engine would make this aircraft inherently unstable; words you don't want to be describing a airliner with.
For example: notice how despite having 1/3 engines tain-mounted, the Lockheed L-1011 much farther back then the Boeing B767-200? ...and its offset from 1 of 3 engines. being tail-mounted. Now take a look at the CRJ-900 with both of it's engines tail-mounted; notice how the wing is further back?
I hope this information can help you improve your single engine designs in the future! :D
@CRJ900Pilot Not really tips. Its just through lots of math and practice. I might make a video explaining the math soon. I streamed quite a bit over the weekend on doing the wings, not sure if that helped.
Hi, I'd just like to point out that the conspiracy theory regarding the Tu-144 is infact not a conspiracy at all, thanks to declassified documents.
PBS made a documentary on this, I think its worthwhile to take a look: here
I have myself done a paper on this for my world history final last year and I found the transcript above very helpful.
Here's a short section:
NARRATOR: The TU-144 was scheduled to fly directly after Concorde. As it taxied for takeoff, the Russian pilot, Koslov, was told by the French air traffic controllers that his display time had been cut in half.
HOWARD MOON: The French, in my opinion, intervened into a scientific, technical spectacle for political reasons. This was a major piece of French prestige and honor. I think they simply wanted to showcase their bird. They wanted to show it off to the world and to push the Russians in the background.
NARRATOR: French test pilot, André Turcat, was watching the TU-144's display.
ANDRÉ TURCAT: We saw the whole movement, the whole presentation of the airplane from very close up. I must say, it was very well done. A 360-degree turn above the runway with good inclination. After this last pass, the plane climbed quite steeply.
NARRATOR: British pilot, John Farley, and his co-pilot, Andy Jones, were also watching.
JOHN FARLEY: Because there was no cloud, he could go up and up and up, and, I don't know, three and a half, four thousand feet. This thing was just going up, looking at it as we were, you know, going away from us like this. And then suddenly, it just very abruptly leveled off. I mean, really violently. And it did something that you never see big airplanes do, really violently change their pitch attitude. And both Andy and I went, "Ooooh!" You got this vision of this aircraft coming down. And it has to do with the angle, the speed, and the distance remaining when you think, 'That's not right.' And I said to Andy, "He's lost it." And at that point, with the aircraft still fairly well up, probably -- I don't know -- 1,500 feet or a bit less, it started to break up and had clearly been overstressed.
NARRATOR: Six Soviet crew members and eight French citizens died. One little boy playing in front of his home was decapitated by a piece of flying debris. Two other children were also killed. Sixty people were seriously injured and fifteen houses totally destroyed.
...
Nearly 25 years after the event, what caused the TU-144 to crash is only now being revealed. Minutes before Concorde and the TU-144 were scheduled to fly, a French Army Mirage jet took off. A surprising departure, since at international airshows, competing pilots expect to have the skies to themselves. Regulations state that a five-mile column of airspace must be kept free for their display. Concorde's crew was warned that the Mirage would be flying. Jean Forestier, French accident investigator, was asked if the same courtesy had been extended to the Russian crew.
JEAN FORESTIER: No.
NARRATOR: Why not?
JEAN FORESTIER: Right. Listen. We're moving away from the subject. If this is the case, we will go round and round impossible issues. As far as I'm concerned, it's very clear. The conversation is going in such a way. It's quite clear. Right. It's over.
NARRATOR: Jean Forestier's revelation that the Soviet crew was not warned of the Mirage was excluded from the government statement. There is speculation that the French neglected to admit this breach of regulations because the Mirage was on a clandestine mission to photograph the TU-144 in flight. In particular, the French wanted detailed film of the canards, the insect wings behind the cockpit. Flying at a height of approximately 4,000 feet in and out of the clouds, the Mirage tracked the TU-144 through its routine. As the Soviet plane climbed on a trajectory which would cross the Mirage's flight path, the pilot, Koslov, was not aware that the French jet was flying directly above him.
YURII KASHTANOV: At the moment when the pilots saw the Mirage which was flying at roughly the same height as the TU-144, they couldn't tell whether it was coming towards them or moving away.
NARRATOR: To avoid colliding with the Mirage, Koslov was forced to pitch the plane violently downwards, causing gravitational forces of minus 1G, known in pilot's jargon as a bunt.
JOHN FARLEY: We talked to the Russian ground crew immediately after the accident, and they all said, as did a Rolls-Royce chap who was familiar with their engine, they all said, "Well, the engines would have not have taken that bunt." Now, what they meant by that was the compressors would probably have surged. This means that you lose thrust. The rotating machinery at the front of the engine, which is generating the pressure before it gets to the combustion chamber where you burn the fuel, that will have stalled. It's purely aerodynamic, and it would have stalled. So, he had one, two, maybe even all three or four of his engines misbehaving now. So, he's level. And you can almost see the question mark over the top of the airplane, you know, as it's going along level.
NARRATOR: At a height of 4,000 feet, Koslov had just one option—to put the plane into a steep dive in an attempt to windmill-start his engines.
JOHN FARLEY: So, he's got to lower the nose, quickly get some speed up, get these engines blowing around, and then go through a few check lists, turn on the fuel, turn on the ignition, and so on. And I suspect that he did this and was completely preoccupied with it. Probably got one, two, maybe even all of them going in the end, and suddenly thought, "Oh! Look at the height!"
NARRATOR: In his effort to pull the jet out of its steep dive, Koslov over-stressed the plane, causing a structural failure. It is widely believed that the French and Soviet governments colluded to cover up the cause of the crash. With eight French citizens killed on the ground, the French government did not want the world to know that the Mirage jet was the precipitating cause of the accident. The official statement implied human error on the part of the Soviet pilot. Jean Forestier returned to defend the statement.
JEAN FORESTIER: The official press release—And I quote from the official press release, because I have no desire to mislead you: "Even though the inquiry established that there was no real risk of collision between the two aircrafts, the Soviet pilot was likely to have been surprised."
NARRATOR: But the official statement concealed crucial evidence which proved that, far from overreacting, the Soviet pilot was forced to take evasive action. Krupianskii, a member of the Russian investigation team, has agreed to break ranks.
EDGAR KRUPIANSKII: In the investigation, we gathered up all the pieces of wreckage, laid it out and tried to work out how the accident happened. While we were working on this, there was another investigation being carried out parallel to ours by the flying commission. There, they were presented with photographs taken by the Mirage. Then, the radar scan readouts were presented, which also showed how close they'd been.
NARRATOR: In Moscow, the authorities also had incentive to collaborate in a cover-up. Regardless of the cause, the TU-144 fell out of the sky for all the world to see. This public relations nightmare would prove fatal if any suggestion was made of mechanical failure in the crash report. Behind the scenes, the Russians agreed to spare the French by not blowing the whistle on the Mirage, providing the French agreed not to suggest there was anything technically wrong with the airplane or its design. Alexei Tupolev was the Soviet accident investigator. He was asked to comment on whether the French and Russians had concealed the true cause of the crash.
I’ve also found that out while building my E-fan almost a year ago, but it never worked in my favour and would do some glitchy things during level flight. I ended up abandoning it. @EternalDarkness
If you wanna do a 3-way collab with MrSilverwolf and I on the MI-26, we'll be more than happy do do so. I got the swashplate and tail rotor done a few months ago but we never got to the fuselage due to a corrupt save file that has been recently fixed.
@Botfinder @AircroftDesigin @RailfanEthan
Let's not forget how close Syria is to Russia as Syria is literally next to their border. Plus, no nation in the worlds like random countries across the Atlantic to stick their noses into conflicts that are totally unreleated to the wellbeing of their own country.
Imagine Russia sending an airstrike on Canada if it had a regime like that of Syria... I'm sure the U.S. won't be happy, as they feel threatened that conflict is at their doorsteps. Same goes with Russia - a country across the atlantic bombing a country near their border; ofcourse they feel threatened.
I live in Canada and like to stay neutral in most arguments, however how the media is treating this one in particular is so brainlessly one-sided, it gets on my nerves.
@jamesPLANESii
I mean, thats basically enough, plus some trial and error. Most of the things you're dealing with in an airfoil has a right angle somewhere to reference off of anyways.
I go more in depth to make sure its smooth, but often times trial and error is enough to do that.
@PancakeAddiction
As an ana and zen main - especially when I play ana, I wanna smash ur face when u ask for healing while jumping all over the place. xD
@Strikefighter04
I think what he means is by putting [RP] in the tile, some of your posts are quite misleading in terms of title. I do agree, RP tag in the title will cause less confusion and make it appear less like spam.
@Strikefighter04 k go ahead. I don't see what's wrong with "Whoever declares war on simplecraplandia, i full support them. :D" on someone else's forum post about a roleplay.
@Strikefighter04 @communisticbanana
Too bad.
I support whoever declares war on simpleannoyingforumspamlandia. Its called moral support, who cares if im not involved.
Rip. So if you were to accelerate retrograde for 10 seconds at 600m/s^2 and just turn off the engines, it would complete an orbit without falling into the atmosphere? Lol @BaconEggs
@MrSilverWolf @JangoTheMango @Strikefighter04
+1Update. It has reached 1520 parts as of 2 minutes ago. I’m going to actually stop soon tho. Despite having a very powerful pc, I can see it starting to lag within the next 300 parts. I’m estimating 2000 parts upon completion.
@ChiChiWerx Indeed interesting. I am well aware of the design flaws of the Tupolev Tu-144, although not a BAS - but enough for us both to come into the conclusion that the Tupolev is indeed flawed in many ways that may well influence the incidence at the paris airshow. However, the source, PBS - a well-trusted source that covered the incident provided evidence, and I am simply using that to support the opinion.
I try to keep an open minded approach to incidents like this and see the reasoning of both sides of the argument. Thanks for sharing the information.
@Supercraft888 Np.
+1With an engine placement like that, I think it would be wise to move the wings further back. The mass from the engine would make this aircraft inherently unstable; words you don't want to be describing a airliner with.
For example: notice how despite having 1/3 engines tain-mounted, the Lockheed L-1011 much farther back then the Boeing B767-200? ...and its offset from 1 of 3 engines. being tail-mounted. Now take a look at the CRJ-900 with both of it's engines tail-mounted; notice how the wing is further back?
I hope this information can help you improve your single engine designs in the future! :D
+1@CRJ900Pilot Not really tips. Its just through lots of math and practice. I might make a video explaining the math soon. I streamed quite a bit over the weekend on doing the wings, not sure if that helped.
@jamesPLANESii idk. its at 1200 parts and not even started on cockpit yet.
@GritAerospaceSolutionsLTD Yeah, why might you ask?
@CRJ900Pilot Unfortunately not. These wings takes hours upon hours to complete - and i dont have that much free time on my hands.
@InternationalAircraftCompany yes comrade!
Hi, I'd just like to point out that the conspiracy theory regarding the Tu-144 is infact not a conspiracy at all, thanks to declassified documents.
PBS made a documentary on this, I think its worthwhile to take a look: here
I have myself done a paper on this for my world history final last year and I found the transcript above very helpful.
Here's a short section:
NARRATOR: The TU-144 was scheduled to fly directly after Concorde. As it taxied for takeoff, the Russian pilot, Koslov, was told by the French air traffic controllers that his display time had been cut in half.
HOWARD MOON: The French, in my opinion, intervened into a scientific, technical spectacle for political reasons. This was a major piece of French prestige and honor. I think they simply wanted to showcase their bird. They wanted to show it off to the world and to push the Russians in the background.
NARRATOR: French test pilot, André Turcat, was watching the TU-144's display.
ANDRÉ TURCAT: We saw the whole movement, the whole presentation of the airplane from very close up. I must say, it was very well done. A 360-degree turn above the runway with good inclination. After this last pass, the plane climbed quite steeply.
NARRATOR: British pilot, John Farley, and his co-pilot, Andy Jones, were also watching.
JOHN FARLEY: Because there was no cloud, he could go up and up and up, and, I don't know, three and a half, four thousand feet. This thing was just going up, looking at it as we were, you know, going away from us like this. And then suddenly, it just very abruptly leveled off. I mean, really violently. And it did something that you never see big airplanes do, really violently change their pitch attitude. And both Andy and I went, "Ooooh!" You got this vision of this aircraft coming down. And it has to do with the angle, the speed, and the distance remaining when you think, 'That's not right.' And I said to Andy, "He's lost it." And at that point, with the aircraft still fairly well up, probably -- I don't know -- 1,500 feet or a bit less, it started to break up and had clearly been overstressed.
NARRATOR: Six Soviet crew members and eight French citizens died. One little boy playing in front of his home was decapitated by a piece of flying debris. Two other children were also killed. Sixty people were seriously injured and fifteen houses totally destroyed.
...
Nearly 25 years after the event, what caused the TU-144 to crash is only now being revealed. Minutes before Concorde and the TU-144 were scheduled to fly, a French Army Mirage jet took off. A surprising departure, since at international airshows, competing pilots expect to have the skies to themselves. Regulations state that a five-mile column of airspace must be kept free for their display. Concorde's crew was warned that the Mirage would be flying. Jean Forestier, French accident investigator, was asked if the same courtesy had been extended to the Russian crew.
JEAN FORESTIER: No.
NARRATOR: Why not?
JEAN FORESTIER: Right. Listen. We're moving away from the subject. If this is the case, we will go round and round impossible issues. As far as I'm concerned, it's very clear. The conversation is going in such a way. It's quite clear. Right. It's over.
NARRATOR: Jean Forestier's revelation that the Soviet crew was not warned of the Mirage was excluded from the government statement. There is speculation that the French neglected to admit this breach of regulations because the Mirage was on a clandestine mission to photograph the TU-144 in flight. In particular, the French wanted detailed film of the canards, the insect wings behind the cockpit. Flying at a height of approximately 4,000 feet in and out of the clouds, the Mirage tracked the TU-144 through its routine. As the Soviet plane climbed on a trajectory which would cross the Mirage's flight path, the pilot, Koslov, was not aware that the French jet was flying directly above him.
YURII KASHTANOV: At the moment when the pilots saw the Mirage which was flying at roughly the same height as the TU-144, they couldn't tell whether it was coming towards them or moving away.
NARRATOR: To avoid colliding with the Mirage, Koslov was forced to pitch the plane violently downwards, causing gravitational forces of minus 1G, known in pilot's jargon as a bunt.
JOHN FARLEY: We talked to the Russian ground crew immediately after the accident, and they all said, as did a Rolls-Royce chap who was familiar with their engine, they all said, "Well, the engines would have not have taken that bunt." Now, what they meant by that was the compressors would probably have surged. This means that you lose thrust. The rotating machinery at the front of the engine, which is generating the pressure before it gets to the combustion chamber where you burn the fuel, that will have stalled. It's purely aerodynamic, and it would have stalled. So, he had one, two, maybe even all three or four of his engines misbehaving now. So, he's level. And you can almost see the question mark over the top of the airplane, you know, as it's going along level.
NARRATOR: At a height of 4,000 feet, Koslov had just one option—to put the plane into a steep dive in an attempt to windmill-start his engines.
JOHN FARLEY: So, he's got to lower the nose, quickly get some speed up, get these engines blowing around, and then go through a few check lists, turn on the fuel, turn on the ignition, and so on. And I suspect that he did this and was completely preoccupied with it. Probably got one, two, maybe even all of them going in the end, and suddenly thought, "Oh! Look at the height!"
NARRATOR: In his effort to pull the jet out of its steep dive, Koslov over-stressed the plane, causing a structural failure. It is widely believed that the French and Soviet governments colluded to cover up the cause of the crash. With eight French citizens killed on the ground, the French government did not want the world to know that the Mirage jet was the precipitating cause of the accident. The official statement implied human error on the part of the Soviet pilot. Jean Forestier returned to defend the statement.
JEAN FORESTIER: The official press release—And I quote from the official press release, because I have no desire to mislead you: "Even though the inquiry established that there was no real risk of collision between the two aircrafts, the Soviet pilot was likely to have been surprised."
NARRATOR: But the official statement concealed crucial evidence which proved that, far from overreacting, the Soviet pilot was forced to take evasive action. Krupianskii, a member of the Russian investigation team, has agreed to break ranks.
EDGAR KRUPIANSKII: In the investigation, we gathered up all the pieces of wreckage, laid it out and tried to work out how the accident happened. While we were working on this, there was another investigation being carried out parallel to ours by the flying commission. There, they were presented with photographs taken by the Mirage. Then, the radar scan readouts were presented, which also showed how close they'd been.
NARRATOR: In Moscow, the authorities also had incentive to collaborate in a cover-up. Regardless of the cause, the TU-144 fell out of the sky for all the world to see. This public relations nightmare would prove fatal if any suggestion was made of mechanical failure in the crash report. Behind the scenes, the Russians agreed to spare the French by not blowing the whistle on the Mirage, providing the French agreed not to suggest there was anything technically wrong with the airplane or its design. Alexei Tupolev was the Soviet accident investigator. He was asked to comment on whether the French and Russians had concealed the true cause of the crash.
+1@Kevinairlines no. it is completely safe to use.
I’ve also found that out while building my E-fan almost a year ago, but it never worked in my favour and would do some glitchy things during level flight. I ended up abandoning it. @EternalDarkness
Eyy I used over too, before I got a pc. @Authros
O v r r a t e d
+1@QingyuZhou Units - by mushro0m
@Davisplanez 1800-2500
@Davisplanez 1478
If you wanna do a 3-way collab with MrSilverwolf and I on the MI-26, we'll be more than happy do do so. I got the swashplate and tail rotor done a few months ago but we never got to the fuselage due to a corrupt save file that has been recently fixed.
@SledDriver Yeah, I like them a lot. The shapes and flight characteristics are fun to play around with and learned quite a lot from your builds.
Im ganna be honest, I think this is your best work yet. Probably my favorite design out of all of them. Flies phenomenally, as usual.
+2@PancakeAddiction calls in winston
switches to moira
@Franticmatty k. ill send u a 3D model then. It's 1 part.
@PancakeAddiction Mada mada
@QingyuZhou No problem my dude!
3.
OOF. This thing is ugly. Why cant you have a vulcan challenge? xD
On a scale of 1000 to 2500 parts, how laggy do you want it?
+4Very precarpathic...
That’s good to hear you have a reliable network. All we have here are CNN (retarded) and CTV/CBC (even more retarded). @EternalDarkness
@Botfinder @AircroftDesigin @RailfanEthan
Let's not forget how close Syria is to Russia as Syria is literally next to their border. Plus, no nation in the worlds like random countries across the Atlantic to stick their noses into conflicts that are totally unreleated to the wellbeing of their own country.
Imagine Russia sending an airstrike on Canada if it had a regime like that of Syria... I'm sure the U.S. won't be happy, as they feel threatened that conflict is at their doorsteps. Same goes with Russia - a country across the atlantic bombing a country near their border; ofcourse they feel threatened.
I live in Canada and like to stay neutral in most arguments, however how the media is treating this one in particular is so brainlessly one-sided, it gets on my nerves.
+2@jamesPLANESii
I mean, thats basically enough, plus some trial and error. Most of the things you're dealing with in an airfoil has a right angle somewhere to reference off of anyways.
I go more in depth to make sure its smooth, but often times trial and error is enough to do that.
@Dalpaca5 ...
...
s p i c y
@PancakeAddiction haha
@PancakeAddiction
As an ana and zen main - especially when I play ana, I wanna smash ur face when u ask for healing while jumping all over the place. xD
Nice car tho
Mada mada. Still need healing?
(I can’t help it after looking at your profile pic xd)
R.C.
BaconAircraft
(Idk if this counts as medium or heavy - Drone (Phantom 3, Inspire 1))
@Strikefighter04
+2I think what he means is by putting [RP] in the tile, some of your posts are quite misleading in terms of title. I do agree, RP tag in the title will cause less confusion and make it appear less like spam.
No.
@Strikefighter04 k go ahead. I don't see what's wrong with "Whoever declares war on simplecraplandia, i full support them. :D" on someone else's forum post about a roleplay.
+1@Strikefighter04 I have a right to express my opinion - and that is this is getting rather spammy.
@Strikefighter04 @communisticbanana
+1Too bad.
I support whoever declares war on simpleannoyingforumspamlandia. Its called moral support, who cares if im not involved.
Whoever declares war on simplecraplandia, i full support them. :D
+1@BaconEggs lol
Rip. So if you were to accelerate retrograde for 10 seconds at 600m/s^2 and just turn off the engines, it would complete an orbit without falling into the atmosphere? Lol @BaconEggs
Wow nice
@TheMutePaper Actually it stands for
T - skidaddle
S - skidoodle
A - your aircraft
D - is now a noodle
Download TSAD software.