Here's something potentially useful.
If you don't mind xml editing, you can use a single type of missile as a multirole weapon. Simply add a property function under Missile drop list and set it to MultiRole. Can also be AirToAir or AirToSurface, should work for all 4 missiles. (Note: property function is case sensitive (must not be capitalized), but MultiRole (or the other two roles) isn't.)
I know about it. wpSystem_ctgt_id variable setter must be zero if Time is less than 0.1s, but Time is global so it only works for player's airplane, and those who was spawned later will perhaps start from 1 or 2 (i.e. second or third point). Try to replace Time with sum(1) in wpSystemctgtid and it's activator.
Sorry, forgot to write back on this. Replacing Time with sum(1) didn't work, I've also tried to have the same target coords for waypoint 1 through 3, but somehow that didn't work either.
Do you think there's any other possible solution for this?
@B17fan
They should activate when the vehicle is deactivated, or their engine is on idle. Magnet power is too weak on the two APCs though, that's probably why they are falling off. If you know how to use Overload, increase their magnet power by 5 and see if that fixes it.
@ThomasRoderick
Answer to the first question, it doesn't. Caliber/diameter does not seem to have any noticeable effect on kinetic damage. 200mm/ids 10 400mm/ids 10
@ThomasRoderick
1) Lemme test... (I suspect it doesn't matter)
2) With some modifications, yes. You gotta space cannon/block pairs far enough apart from other pairs, so they don't destroy stuff or mess with the results.
@rexzion @Farewellntchii @MyReaktorIsLeak @DimitriIqbal91
You were on my "people who may be interested in this finding" list. I am truly sorry.
(Let me know if you aren't, or don't want to get tagged)
@ThomasRoderick
Thanks. So that part of the mechanic has nothing to do with explosionScale value, when it's Basic.
@11qazxc
That's a really cool observation, didn't think the value was rerolled with every map restart.
I can't do the testing myself right now, but I wanna see if the game applies the same amount of boost/nerf for 1) all cannons 2) all cannons of the same name 3) all cannons with the same Xml characteristics (so same muzzle velocity and impactDamageScaler), or it's different for each cannon every time.
We can test this by simply copy-pasting the cannon, place them so they each shoot at different block, and take note of how many shots each one requires to destroy the block. (Blocks should all have 1000 HP, and are individually connected to cockpit and only the cockpit--I'm not sure if the HP-pool thing you mentioned will have any effect on the result). Hopefully so we can get more data for average/range of damage a given combo of muzzle velocity + impactDamageScaler will do.
@ThomasRoderick
(You may know this already, but) I believe/think disintegration happens thanks to the attribute of explosion which lets it "destroy/cut" the connections between blocks within the effect radius, as well as the way blocks are connected.
You can build 'tougher' plane by connecting every individual block to the primary cockpit (with partCollisionResponseNone and all that good stuff), since in this case, you must damage each individual part or the cockpit to destroy the whole plane.
Planes we've been building (as a community as a whole) tend to be weak partly because parts are connected to each other, and especially other weak parts, which causes the chain-reaction when hit with explosive weapons (or anything, if partCollisionResponse is default).
(I have added some visual explanations on the topic on my sinking ship damage model (advanced demo))
@ThomasRoderick
Yeah, there isn't much info or research on the topic on the site it seems (I'm really excited & interested in your gun weapons research for that, I do want to have a good and consistent damage/armor system for my airplanes).
It's kinda understandable why this hasn't been researched yet (much), but I think it's (and should be) pretty relevant now, now that we can build ships that sink, and (combined with necessary FT tech like autopilot and autoaim) can soon have actual naval combat--for that to be fun, battleship needs to "feel" like a battleship in relation to smaller type of ships. (And for that we need to have some idea on how cannons work)
I'm pretty hopeful that we can get at least some useful info out of this experiment.
I wanna add that for bomb and missile (for clarity's sake), scale of the visual effect part affects explosion radius. And I think it may also affect the actual damage radius & force, but I need to do some tests.
@NotHome
Not on the version I'm working on (my current version uses F-105), but it is possible! :). Check out MisterT's video https://youtu.be/ZpPW_ikWy8c
@ThomasRoderick
No problem, and thanks for the clarification.
I got a little confused, as I didn't realize that you/game basically shares a single predictor for both cannons and guns in air-to-air mode, but now your explanation of the testing results make more sense. Quite an interesting finding.
@Thatguy2020
It was easier to edit the vehicles that way, why they're outside the plane.
As for tanks, you have to first press corresponding activation groups to activate each vehicle, Number 2 for the tank, Number 5 & 6 for the APCs. Check out the instructions for rest of the instructions (you can open that in designer or in-flight, from option menu).
Also, detacher won't get in the way so don't worry about it, it doesn't have collision.
@ThomasRoderick
Don't mention it, this is cool and useful.
I wanna ask a question for clarification though, by "highest" are you referring to the highest muzzle velocity weapon, highest in the list, or highest in terms of placement? I'm assuming it's the first one, but just to be sure.
@DatRoadTrainGuy19
Thanks😂
And... no, he's not Tenpenny, but I did base the uniform on LSPD/LAPD color scheme.
Now that you mentioned it, I do want to make/see CRASH version of the figs. (I'm not making them (not anytime soon at least), you should give it a try if you wanna)
Beautiful plane, pleasant & fun to fly. Also, the reflection of the fuselage looks just... right. (Might be a common knowledge, but the reflection setting really did impress me--and turns out it's simply a 100% smoothness giving it the beautiful look! haha (never thought of that))
This is so cool!
If, perhaps, combined with coords based self driving mechanism (11qazxc's gift truck for instance) so the truck drives itself closer to a target (you can aggro the thing by locking onto the truck with missile, so it "targets" you--which lets the truck have your coords via FT variables), you might be able to automate the process a bit more. That may/will create some limitations in terms of what kind of planes can be refueled, though.
@OrderlyHippo
Check this out!
That would still be better than just putting a camera on a bomb with wings, and flying it like a plane (which is what I've done with my "TV" bomb).
I should see what I can do with the 1-part-HUD variables.
.
How's the GPS bomb coming along btw?
I've figured the idea is basically the same as the autopilot on PQ-14, but I still haven't tried to make a bomb/missile using that tech yet. Something like a cruise missile that destroys ice base missiles might be fun to make though
@ShiroNeko
Thanks:)
I don't build or play with ships much in this game (still experiencing warship burnout from Navalcraft days.. lol (built a lot of ships in that game)), but I definitely wanted to turn the ship combat more fun somehow, and I think this has proven that it can be achieved (I think the tech is still very new/unrefined). Hoping to see people make something better out of this.
@11qazxc
That's great to know, thanks. Doubt I can realize it, but I'll tinker with these variables.
By the way, could you, if possible, modify your RNG custom variable from the gift truck so it returns one of 10 consecutive numbers, like 1,2,3,4,...10, or 0.1,0.2,0.3,...0.9,1? (It seems to return 0,0.25,0.5, or 0.75 as it is now)
Or do I need a whole new FT for this?
I'm working on this flak site (deleted the link as people were randomly stumbling upon it & FT was broken) using winterro's Langley guns and bot activation tech (missile), but want to add some randomness to the fuse so it can explodes either in front of, or behind the target.
Edit:
The thing I linked may not work as intended btw, I messed up guns' activationGroup with my latest modification. I'll make another upload for the release version either way.
@mire233
It's not really. Armor in this case, is the HP of the buoyancy blocks. My previous version had dedicated "armor block", but I realized it was redundant + didn't work very well in SimplePlanes (since there's no shell penetration).
And ship's HP/survivability is the buoyancy. In other words, the number of remaining buoyancy blocks.
@Farewellntchii
Thanks, and yeah I agree with you on the autoaim. I think (especially for AI opponent) incorporating RNG to the targeting FT might improve that. Like, variable that adds/subtracts some meters from TargetDistance. I'm working on a reskin of USS Langley by winterro (land flak gun site), and I'm hoping to do something like that with it--so shells can explode in front of, or behind you at "random".
@Yourlocalhuman
It would probably depend on various factors, like explosionScale, velocity, mass, etc. of the missile. In general, this doesn't mix very well with explosive weapons, since big enough explosion can destroy part 'connection' even if it can't destroy the part itself. You can maybe create a missile that works with the system (with weak enough explosion etc.) but I'm not sure yet.
@Bellcat
Thanks! I'd say it's probably not as hard or time-consuming as it might seem though, you just need to decide how much HP you want the ship to have, and save each type of blocks as sub assembly. Connecting each part to the cockpit may be a pain though, in fact. Btw, nice Koishi hat! Didn't expect to see it here lol
@BrySkyIndustries
Thank you! Building/coming up with new ideas is fun in itself, but comment like yours really gets me happy and motivated!
And yeah, I'm really hoping this gets people to experiment with the concept and make something cooler (& fun to battle with and against) with regards to ships in the game. Plus, some of the techs can be adapted for other things (like pre-modeled damaged fuselage hidden beneath the non-damaged one--you'll see prototype for that on advanced demo ship), so I'm pretty excited in general. Thank you again for the comment!:)
.
.
Oh--and if we combine this with autoaim FT with trajectory calcuration, autopilot FT (see waypoint system by 11qazxc for example), and the tech to make AI fire cannons (as it turns out they use cannon after firing all missiles--learned that thanks to builds by winterro)... we can have an AI warship that sails around the map, just like Beast or Tiny, that fights back! With some clever ideas, I think even a fleet battle is possible, in simple planes.
Hey, got some more questions,
1)How can I change the rate at which aircraft climbs/descends? I want to make it climb/descend at slower rate (I'm hoping this mitigates the problem of altitude overshoot)
.
2)How can I change the horizontal distance requirement?
I'm referring to this part:
3.if distance to point is less than 10m:increase id; goto 1
10m seems to be too small for the jet.
(Same question as before, I phrased it funny the last time and what you pointed to didn't seem to do what I wanted it to)
.
.
Also, some findings
-AI "piloted" plane and player "piloted" one take different routes (at least initially) for some reason, even if I spawn them at the same location. (So far happening with mid-air spawns, haven't confirmed if this happens with land spawn since the bombs on AI plane explodes upon touching the ground, right after spawning them.
.
-(At least for a fast plane,) You're more likely to successfully pass the waypoint if you only change one type of coords with every ID.
E.G. if you wanna change X between waypoint 1 and 2, keep Z the same or keep the difference small. (Probably depends on the plane)
.
-Related to above, if the plane has to turn a lot to reach the next WP, you should make it travel a long distance (so the plane can turn gradually). Again, less likely to miss WP this way.
@11qazxc
I was confused to see my name on the list, but now I understand why, lol
@BeeEngineer
Can you edit the description and replace Kendog84 with 11qazxc? (The truck should be considered 11's entry, FT's something on its own)
I'll probably submit my own later
@SBSBSBSB114514
+1What would you like to know?
@rexzion
+1Me likey rockets, rockets goods
@Freesanbox
+1Thanks;)
@FirstFish83828
+1Thanks!
Nice update over the last one!
Here's something potentially useful.
+1If you don't mind xml editing, you can use a single type of missile as a multirole weapon. Simply add a property
functionunder Missile drop list and set it toMultiRole. Can also be AirToAir or AirToSurface, should work for all 4 missiles. (Note: propertyfunctionis case sensitive (must not be capitalized), butMultiRole(or the other two roles) isn't.)I shoulda read the instructions before I flew this thing... I got Ishii-d before takeoff
Edit: It was also due to low physics, as it turns out
+1Looks great and fun to fly, controllable even on mobile. Great plane!
+1Sorry, forgot to write back on this. Replacing Time with sum(1) didn't work, I've also tried to have the same target coords for waypoint 1 through 3, but somehow that didn't work either.
+1Do you think there's any other possible solution for this?
@B17fan
+1They should activate when the vehicle is deactivated, or their engine is on idle. Magnet power is too weak on the two APCs though, that's probably why they are falling off. If you know how to use Overload, increase their magnet power by 5 and see if that fixes it.
Nice!
+1Nice cool design, love the unique far-apart engine pods and tail stab with downward angles. And the top profile's just, really nice
+1@ThomasRoderick
Answer to the first question, it doesn't. Caliber/diameter does not seem to have any noticeable effect on kinetic damage.
200mm/ids 10
400mm/ids 10
You can use these to see for yourself
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/1TV8yw/Cannon-damage-tester-Mk3-5-200mm
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/03mS0f/Cannon-damage-tester-Mk3-5-400mm
I'm guessing it might be the muzzle velocity equivalent of explosion damage, though that's a blind guess
+1@ThomasRoderick
+11) Lemme test... (I suspect it doesn't matter)
2) With some modifications, yes. You gotta space cannon/block pairs far enough apart from other pairs, so they don't destroy stuff or mess with the results.
@rexzion @Farewellntchii @MyReaktorIsLeak @DimitriIqbal91
+1You were on my "people who may be interested in this finding" list. I am truly sorry.
(Let me know if you aren't, or don't want to get tagged)
Looks nice and build is efficient! Love it!
+1@ThomasRoderick
Thanks. So that part of the mechanic has nothing to do with explosionScale value, when it's Basic.
@11qazxc
That's a really cool observation, didn't think the value was rerolled with every map restart.
I can't do the testing myself right now, but I wanna see if the game applies the same amount of boost/nerf for 1) all cannons 2) all cannons of the same name 3) all cannons with the same Xml characteristics (so same muzzle velocity and impactDamageScaler), or it's different for each cannon every time.
We can test this by simply copy-pasting the cannon, place them so they each shoot at different block, and take note of how many shots each one requires to destroy the block. (Blocks should all have 1000 HP, and are individually connected to cockpit and only the cockpit--I'm not sure if the HP-pool thing you mentioned will have any effect on the result). Hopefully so we can get more data for average/range of damage a given combo of muzzle velocity + impactDamageScaler will do.
+1@ThomasRoderick
+1Thanks, lemme try these examples
@ThomasRoderick
+1(You may know this already, but) I believe/think disintegration happens thanks to the attribute of explosion which lets it "destroy/cut" the connections between blocks within the effect radius, as well as the way blocks are connected.
You can build 'tougher' plane by connecting every individual block to the primary cockpit (with
partCollisionResponseNoneand all that good stuff), since in this case, you must damage each individual part or the cockpit to destroy the whole plane.Planes we've been building (as a community as a whole) tend to be weak partly because parts are connected to each other, and especially other weak parts, which causes the chain-reaction when hit with explosive weapons (or anything, if partCollisionResponse is default).
(I have added some visual explanations on the topic on my sinking ship damage model (advanced demo))
@ThomasRoderick
Yeah, there isn't much info or research on the topic on the site it seems (I'm really excited & interested in your gun weapons research for that, I do want to have a good and consistent damage/armor system for my airplanes).
It's kinda understandable why this hasn't been researched yet (much), but I think it's (and should be) pretty relevant now, now that we can build ships that sink, and (combined with necessary FT tech like autopilot and autoaim) can soon have actual naval combat--for that to be fun, battleship needs to "feel" like a battleship in relation to smaller type of ships. (And for that we need to have some idea on how cannons work)
I'm pretty hopeful that we can get at least some useful info out of this experiment.
+1I wanna add that for bomb and missile (for clarity's sake), scale of the visual effect part affects explosion radius. And I think it may also affect the actual damage radius & force, but I need to do some tests.
+1@Nofferston @rexzion @11qazxc @winterro
+1You guys might be interested
Really cool concept
+1@NotHome
+1Not on the version I'm working on (my current version uses F-105), but it is possible! :). Check out MisterT's video https://youtu.be/ZpPW_ikWy8c
@ThomasRoderick
+1No problem, and thanks for the clarification.
I got a little confused, as I didn't realize that you/game basically shares a single predictor for both cannons and guns in air-to-air mode, but now your explanation of the testing results make more sense. Quite an interesting finding.
@Thatguy2020
+1It was easier to edit the vehicles that way, why they're outside the plane.
As for tanks, you have to first press corresponding activation groups to activate each vehicle, Number 2 for the tank, Number 5 & 6 for the APCs. Check out the instructions for rest of the instructions (you can open that in designer or in-flight, from option menu).
Also, detacher won't get in the way so don't worry about it, it doesn't have collision.
@ThomasRoderick
Don't mention it, this is cool and useful.
I wanna ask a question for clarification though, by "highest" are you referring to the highest muzzle velocity weapon, highest in the list, or highest in terms of placement? I'm assuming it's the first one, but just to be sure.
+1@DatRoadTrainGuy19
Thanks😂
And... no, he's not Tenpenny, but I did base the uniform on LSPD/LAPD color scheme.
Now that you mentioned it, I do want to make/see CRASH version of the figs. (I'm not making them (not anytime soon at least), you should give it a try if you wanna)
+1Beautiful plane, pleasant & fun to fly. Also, the reflection of the fuselage looks just... right. (Might be a common knowledge, but the reflection setting really did impress me--and turns out it's simply a 100% smoothness giving it the beautiful look! haha (never thought of that))
+1This is so cool!
+1If, perhaps, combined with coords based self driving mechanism (11qazxc's gift truck for instance) so the truck drives itself closer to a target (you can aggro the thing by locking onto the truck with missile, so it "targets" you--which lets the truck have your coords via FT variables), you might be able to automate the process a bit more. That may/will create some limitations in terms of what kind of planes can be refueled, though.
@OrderlyHippo
Check this out!
@IceCraftGaming
+1You're right. I don't remember why I did it on SimpleRockets (I suspect a tutorial/guide took me to the site)
Whoa!
+1Is this related to rexzion's PQ-14/11qazxc's waypoint system, or is it entirely a separate development? I've been working on AI bomber using these techs for the last month or so myself, so I'd curious to see how this works if it's powered by different FTs
My old(ish) forum post
https://www.simpleplanes.com/Forums/View/1694470/Autopilot-with-Predetermined-Course-destination-AI-bomber-concept
Nice hull! Excited to see the finished version.
+1Noticed some faulty connections, though--buoyancy blocks are connected to the exterior shell, so the ship loses its exterior/outer shell when you destroy the buoyancy blocks. Like this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/973002115993714688/1061631581091012689/IMG_8130.png
You can fix this by disconnecting buoyancy blocks from the exterior shell, and individually connecting them to the primary cockpit.
Check out the description of my damage model page for more thorough explanation, I've done a complete overhaul so it should be clearer.
(Explanation mostly done through images)
https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/9K7E8p/Sinkable-ship-damage-model-buoyancy-Description-Redone
@rexzion
That would still be better than just putting a camera on a bomb with wings, and flying it like a plane (which is what I've done with my "TV" bomb).
+1I should see what I can do with the 1-part-HUD variables.
.
How's the GPS bomb coming along btw?
I've figured the idea is basically the same as the autopilot on PQ-14, but I still haven't tried to make a bomb/missile using that tech yet. Something like a cruise missile that destroys ice base missiles might be fun to make though
@11qazxc
+1Thanks, counter works too. As long as there's some variation in the detonation time.
@ShiroNeko
+1Thanks:)
I don't build or play with ships much in this game (still experiencing warship burnout from Navalcraft days.. lol (built a lot of ships in that game)), but I definitely wanted to turn the ship combat more fun somehow, and I think this has proven that it can be achieved (I think the tech is still very new/unrefined). Hoping to see people make something better out of this.
@11qazxc
That's great to know, thanks. Doubt I can realize it, but I'll tinker with these variables.
By the way, could you, if possible, modify your RNG custom variable from the gift truck so it returns one of 10 consecutive numbers, like 1,2,3,4,...10, or 0.1,0.2,0.3,...0.9,1? (It seems to return 0,0.25,0.5, or 0.75 as it is now)
Or do I need a whole new FT for this?
I'm working on this flak site (deleted the link as people were randomly stumbling upon it & FT was broken) using winterro's Langley guns and bot activation tech (missile), but want to add some randomness to the fuse so it can explodes either in front of, or behind the target.
Edit:
+1The thing I linked may not work as intended btw, I messed up guns' activationGroup with my latest modification. I'll make another upload for the release version either way.
@rexzion @11qazxc
+1Do you guys think this is possible?
@IceCraftGaming
+1Probably possible even with the current set up, but you first have to chart the route between two places (I do have a plan to do that)
@mire233
It's not really. Armor in this case, is the HP of the buoyancy blocks. My previous version had dedicated "armor block", but I realized it was redundant + didn't work very well in SimplePlanes (since there's no shell penetration).
And ship's HP/survivability is the buoyancy. In other words, the number of remaining buoyancy blocks.
You can read the description of my previous post for more thorough explanation on some of the basics here https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/15q53o/Buoyancy-based-warship-damage-model-tech-demonstrator?redirect=false
+1Download: https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/9K7E8p/Sinkable-ship-damage-model-buoyancy
+1@Farewellntchii
+1Thanks, and yeah I agree with you on the autoaim. I think (especially for AI opponent) incorporating RNG to the targeting FT might improve that. Like, variable that adds/subtracts some meters from TargetDistance. I'm working on a reskin of USS Langley by winterro (land flak gun site), and I'm hoping to do something like that with it--so shells can explode in front of, or behind you at "random".
@FOXG
+1Thanks!
@Yourlocalhuman
+1It would probably depend on various factors, like explosionScale, velocity, mass, etc. of the missile. In general, this doesn't mix very well with explosive weapons, since big enough explosion can destroy part 'connection' even if it can't destroy the part itself. You can maybe create a missile that works with the system (with weak enough explosion etc.) but I'm not sure yet.
@Bellcat
+1Thanks! I'd say it's probably not as hard or time-consuming as it might seem though, you just need to decide how much HP you want the ship to have, and save each type of blocks as sub assembly. Connecting each part to the cockpit may be a pain though, in fact. Btw, nice Koishi hat! Didn't expect to see it here lol
@BrySkyIndustries
Thank you! Building/coming up with new ideas is fun in itself, but comment like yours really gets me happy and motivated!
And yeah, I'm really hoping this gets people to experiment with the concept and make something cooler (& fun to battle with and against) with regards to ships in the game. Plus, some of the techs can be adapted for other things (like pre-modeled damaged fuselage hidden beneath the non-damaged one--you'll see prototype for that on advanced demo ship), so I'm pretty excited in general. Thank you again for the comment!:)
.
+1.
Oh--and if we combine this with autoaim FT with trajectory calcuration, autopilot FT (see waypoint system by 11qazxc for example), and the tech to make AI fire cannons (as it turns out they use cannon after firing all missiles--learned that thanks to builds by winterro)... we can have an AI warship that sails around the map, just like Beast or Tiny, that fights back! With some clever ideas, I think even a fleet battle is possible, in simple planes.
Version with label that shows current XYZ coords and next waypoint (mainly for mobile users)
+1https://www.simpleplanes.com/a/57ABYt/PQ-14-waypoint-with-XYZ-label
Hey, got some more questions,
1)How can I change the rate at which aircraft climbs/descends? I want to make it climb/descend at slower rate (I'm hoping this mitigates the problem of altitude overshoot)
.
2)How can I change the horizontal distance requirement?
I'm referring to this part:
10m seems to be too small for the jet.
+1(Same question as before, I phrased it funny the last time and what you pointed to didn't seem to do what I wanted it to)
.
.
Also, some findings
-AI "piloted" plane and player "piloted" one take different routes (at least initially) for some reason, even if I spawn them at the same location. (So far happening with mid-air spawns, haven't confirmed if this happens with land spawn since the bombs on AI plane explodes upon touching the ground, right after spawning them.
.
-(At least for a fast plane,) You're more likely to successfully pass the waypoint if you only change one type of coords with every ID.
E.G. if you wanna change X between waypoint 1 and 2, keep Z the same or keep the difference small. (Probably depends on the plane)
.
-Related to above, if the plane has to turn a lot to reach the next WP, you should make it travel a long distance (so the plane can turn gradually). Again, less likely to miss WP this way.
@11qazxc
I was confused to see my name on the list, but now I understand why, lol
@BeeEngineer
+1Can you edit the description and replace Kendog84 with 11qazxc? (The truck should be considered 11's entry, FT's something on its own)
I'll probably submit my own later
This is just, incredible.
+1So much potential, for many other applications (patrolling police car, airport baggage handler, "regular" traffic...)
@kyomunosekai
+1Me? I'm on discord, you can find me in SPBC (same username)